V1 K Series Engine?

[PHENDERSON]

I wonder...how close would a K series engine/trans fit in our goblins. More out of curiosity than anything. Has anyone ever used something other than an ecotec engine...an no electric either.

 

[r3drckt]

Only know of the Tesla Goblin. A K series would fit, but you’d be on your own for fabricating the subframe and mounts. But size wise, k series would definitely fit.

 

[Gtstorey]

“Fitting” is probably the easy part. Custom subframe, modified Goblin frame mounts. Hard part is all of the details of hubs, suspension mounts, control, wiring, ECM/BCM, shifting, etc, etc, etc. Pretty much any front wheel drive 4 cylinder could be made to work. A lot of 6 and 8 could also.

 

[Dale E]

I have no comments at this moment!!

Dale

 

[k.rollin]

In before LS4 lol

 

[Chubbs]

I think nobody has tried because there's not a good reason to. The ecotec is the LS of the 4 cylinder world, and God's gift to power hungry tuner boys. It can become a naturally aspirated 9,000 RPM screamer, or a turboed 500 horsepower monster, all with the stock bottom end. If you want to build it, a thousand horsepower is technically achievable out of 2 liters and 4 cylinders. Keep it stock, and it's as reliable as anything out of japan. You just can't ask for much more. I can't think of any other engine to put in that wouldn't be a downgrade.

 

[finazzoty]

I think nobody has tried because there's not a good reason to. The ecotec is the LS of the 4 cylinder world, and God's gift to power hungry tuner boys. It can become a naturally aspirated 9,000 RPM screamer, or a turboed 500 horsepower monster, all with the stock bottom end. If you want to build it, a thousand horsepower is technically achievable out of 2 liters and 4 cylinders. Keep it stock, and it's as reliable as anything out of japan. You just can't ask for much more. I can't think of any other engine to put in that wouldn't be a downgrade.

So slight tangent question off of this….how far can you take an LSJ before you start to run into significant heat management and reliability issues? Asking as it applies specifically to a road course application where the engine is constantly taking a beating.

The reason I ask is this:
I just received a entry level stage 2 turbo kit from ZZP and am already starting to wonder whether or not I should have gone with the stage 3 or even an S257. Any input on this is greatly appreciated

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Reliability issues - for the street or the track? 350ish HP for the street is what many engine shops recommend as a good balance of power and relative longevity. For the track, that all depends upon what you doing. Autocross, road course, drag racing - some engine builders claim 400-450ish HP, but a stock bottom end is edging toward hand grenade territory pushing it that far. Over that and you will have to expect parts failures and rebuild (if the block is still usable) when things fail. Caveat to this is how many miles are on the engine already, what performance enhancements have been done (like balance shafts removed), and how much boost are you willing to risk. If you're going racing your best bet is a built short block - with all forged internals, a girdled block, and full balance and blueprint - and then the sky is the limit.

 

[Chubbs]

I think I agree, 350 is probably a good number, depending on your definition of "reliable".

However...
have you ever been to a race school, and talked to the race instructors about the cars they run? In my experience, it is almost always something with a cage, harnesses, all the suspension mods, sticky tires, and a STOCK engine. Most of the guys I know that are really into track time don't mod their engines much at all. Maybe very basic stuff, and perhaps some cooling/oiling mods, but power usually isn't something they are after. The most reliable version of an LSJ is the 205hp one that came out of the GM factory.

I wouldn't worry about some basic bolt ons, those should be fine. Maybe a slightly smaller pulley (don't over do it), headers, air filters, stuff like that. But if you're messing with balance shafts and cams and such, it probably won't be as reliable as it was when it rolled off the showroom, even if it still holds together.

 

[Dale E]

Okay, good points. So, why in the elder days did SCCA put the Lotus 7 with 50 - 75 horsepower into the same class as a Corvette? And the Lotus was still winning. Yep, not horsepower. It was because the Lotus handled better, was lighter, more nimble. Proved the same on the road race circuits. (Lotus 11?). If you want to go faster at autocross, get your suspensions right and tires, and seat time. SCCA put the Goblin in EMod due to engine size - over 2.0. A lotus 7 (replica Birkin) with a 2.0 Ford engine is in DMod. Last Texas autocross the Birkin had a better time than the Goblins -- I don't know the drivers experience. And the Goblin guys have been doing very well in their short time, and trying very had to make their cars better as they go. Kudos to them!! What made the difference in time?

For autocross you probably won't need more than 250 - 300 horsepower to be the top dog as you get everything else in line. For road racing you will need more horsepower for the longer straights. You will - if your are handling right - catch the faster car in the corners.

So, if I were to have a Goblin, I would get the suspension stuff the best I could, and be happy with 250 - 300 horsepower for my type of driving.

Build to your intent of use. For street driving you don't need to spend all the money in building horsepower and tuning. Stock Cobalt engine is sufficient!!

Just my opinion!

 

[finazzoty]

Thank you all - very helpful

 

[ncgoblin]

The engine can reach 500whp but #1 question is what budget are you working with? $20K, $30K, $40K all grant higher levels of power. I am unable to speak for all builders but I would assume most that are near 300whp are in the range of $25-30$k invested. The LSJ stock is more then enough for AutoX in fact Miatas will still put you to shame for years until the Goblin is dialed in tires/suspension/alignment, and seat time.

On the street 300whp will keep up with most street cars. 400whp I am assuming will require boost ramp and fine tuning @OptimizePrime may be able to give some insight. I am happy at 300whp but I feel 350whp would be perfect for the road and obviously too much for AutoX.

As for the original post regarding K Series. Both engines are reliable, LSJ is cheaper, just as plentiful, and investing that fabrication/frustration into a Turbo build will net better results for the $$. I would love to see a K series but like the tesla powered it would be "just because" build.