V1 Coolant hose alternative

[gofast]

Ross, I see it now in your previous post.

 

[Ross]

I've been looking at pictures of the hoses and didn't notice any interference. I still have just a bare frame yet. Is there a picture of the subframe bolt somewhere that would show me the interference? Thanks for pointing this out, that's why I asked

The subframe is normally hanging below the "100" mark on my frame.

The carriage bolt has a low head height to reduce interference with the hose.
I have to bend the rubber hose out of the way in order to put the carriage bolt thru the subframe, and frame, then torque to 100 foot pounds.
There is about 1.5" of space for a barb, before you would interfere with the bolt head.
So glad I went out and measured it, as I was thinking it was 1/2" of room. 1.5" should be enough, but it will still be a short barb with the weld in there.
If you want to lower your engine (you have to remove the subframe), you would have to drain the radiator, then remove the hose to get the subframe bolt out.
If you had the nut welded inside the subframe, you wouldn't have to drain the radiator and remove the hose.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Is the assumption the bolt head will be flush with the bottom of the subframe? I believe at least one person who has assembled the subframe using the supplied carriage bolt has stated it does not fit all the way into the sleeved hole? If this is the case, there may be less clearance than a standard hex head bolt. Careful test fitting is required to check this measurement before committing to a mod that would be very difficult to reverse.

 

[gofast]

Thanks for checking on that. The picture really helps. I can make the barb super short or welding in a nut as you mentioned earlier is a possibility.

 

[gofast]

I'm not going to be cutting or welding anything until the car is fully assembled and I'm certain things will work.

 

[Ross]

Is the assumption the bolt head will be flush with the bottom of the subframe? I believe at least one person who has assembled the subframe using the supplied carriage bolt has stated it does not fit all the way into the sleeved hole? If this is the case, there may be less clearance than a standard hex head bolt. Careful test fitting is required to check this measurement before committing to a mod that would be very difficult to reverse.

The bolt head isn't flush, but it does occupy less space than a hex head would. Also less edges to rub against the hose.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

And how are you going to get around the subframe bolt that wants to occupy the same space as your hose barbs?

The barb and hose are considerably smaller in diameter than the AN hose connection.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

I just purchased a piece of 1" black pipe and I plan to machine hose barbs with a lathe that will be welded in place. The pipe OD is .010" or so larger than the tube ID so not much needs to be removed. I thought I'd turn down just enough of the pipe to insert 1/2" into the tube. I'll then machine a suitable barb to fit the hose on the other end of the piece of pipe. Before I move ahead with this, does anyone see any problems I'm overlooking?

The only problem I see is that the welded hose barb will sit directly under the subframe bolt. You will either need to use Ross's idea so the bolt goes in from the top, or you will need to make the barb removable.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

I've been looking at pictures of the hoses and didn't notice any interference. I still have just a bare frame yet. Is there a picture of the subframe bolt somewhere that would show me the interference? Thanks for pointing this out, that's why I asked

 

[Fozda]

I've decided to go a slightly different route since the space is so tight. Instead of welding a threaded fitting of some sort onto the end of the tube, I will just weld a hose barb onto the end to hook the hoses to. Still does what I want and still better than pulling a hose all the way through.

We will just cut the flared portion off one end, slide it into the tube to the desired depth, and weld.
This setup should avoid all clearance issues.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

The same site Jim found also has these - 1.25 NPT to hose barb. https://www.cutandcouple.com/product/plain-steel-hex-male-npt-x-hose-barb/
This would be removable and putting threads inside the tube is easy.

 

[Fozda]

Once you start going into the tube for threads you will be reducing the flow. The ID of the tube is almost exactly the same as the ID of the hose so adding threads and then threading a fitting into it will greatly reduce the ID. That's why I wanted male threads welded onto the end of the tube in order to minimize reduction of the ID. Based on the pictures everyone has provided there's just not enough room to fit these fittings.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

So welding a 1.25 inch OD coupler fitting, with a barely 1 inch ID, will also not reduce the flow? Not sure I am understanding your logic? Anything that gets installed into the frame tube is going to be a reduction from the 1.25 inch ID. There are several builders using 1 inch silicon hose without overheating issues. Basically, use whatever option you want to use and fits your budget and building abilities. To each there own.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

The conversion is done, I think. I hope I don't regret it. Worst case, I cut the fitting off with a cut off blade and pull hoses.

Pipe coupler cut in half.


20AN fitting turned down to match outer diameter better.

20AN


Coupler nut welded into subframe to allow hose and fitting clearance.



We also did some farely extensive testing to verify that we had zero leaks, internal as well as external.




Can't find the pics, but we also raised the rear of the car. Dumped in 2 quarts of coolant(chilled to zero degrees) and re-pressurized the frame. The level held steady and the only tube that got cold was the lower one.

 

[Briann1177]

Nice. How did you verify that there are no internal leaks in the tubes that are welded to the lower tubes? I know you were talking about drilling holes and welding them back up.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Monitored the frost on the lower tube, to see if it moved up any other tubes, during the test with frozen coolant. Also checked the fluid level for drop. Truthfully, a very small leak wouldn't have shown up in this test. If, however, there is a leak that small, the tube shouldn't heat while driving and after its full it shouldn't have any negative affect other than a few more ounces of dead weight in the car.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Jim, keep posting on this, as many of us are interested to see how this works out. I would like to follow in your footsteps on this, as I believe the frame is a good heat sink to pull BTUs out of the radiator system.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Just a quick update. Still waiting on one of the 20AN fittings to finish this project.

Picked up the 1"NPT x 1-1/4 hose barbat the local hydraulic hose repair shop. Would have liked something with a hex to ease installation but this is what they had. Improvised by cutting notches for a spanner(piece of angle iron with one leg shortened up).

Shortened up the DF supplied hose.

 

[Mayor West]

Those of you who went 16/20 AN line, can you help me figure out what fittings and direction I should go? I've sort of come to realize my first plan of attack isn't going to work (alumaweld bungs onto everything and go from there). I saw there are some 16AN to 1.5" Radiator adapters and I guess I'll go that route but I didn't want to overcomplicate things.

I know 16 is smaller than desirable, especially considering 20 is basically perfect, but I couldn't find any 20 line that wasn't a billion dollars.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Those of you who went 16/20 AN line, can you help me figure out what fittings and direction I should go? I've sort of come to realize my first plan of attack isn't going to work (alumaweld bungs onto everything and go from there). I saw there are some 16AN to 1.5" Radiator adapters and I guess I'll go that route but I didn't want to overcomplicate things.

I know 16 is smaller than desirable, especially considering 20 is basically perfect, but I couldn't find any 20 line that wasn't a billion dollars.

#KLMMOTORAPORTS (Ken) has some good pics and discusses this a bit in his build log.
KLMMotoersports

16AN is probably what you want. The engine inlet, outlet, and radiator fittings are all 1-1/4" hose. So you will need 16AN x 1-1/4" hose adapters. 16s are a lot cheaper than 20s. I got mine of off ebay. $20-40. They are cheap poop and will fade. I am waiting on one more fitting, and it's an Earls and hopefully will not be so cheaply built. It was $100. I'm fairly committed at this point.

At first, I thought that welding fittings in the frame was a cool idea and thought that I may save a little money, but it has turned out to be a bit of a pain, was probably not cheaper than stainless hose, and the cooling benefits are still unknown, if there are any.

It does still have the cool factor though.