V1 Steering

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Okay, thanks for that. I tried the upright the other direction but it didn't look right to me then, but I guess it looks even less right when compared to the photos you sent to me.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

But, after playing with some measurements on the upright, mounting upside down pushes the steering arm 1 inch lower than being mounted the 'right' way. Also looks like there may be more adjustability to height of the steering arm? Another change is the bearing hub mounting location is lowered about 1/4 inch which would raise the ride height. Hmmm...

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

BTW, @AZmoto front uprights are mounted correctly. Understand that lowering the steering arm/tie rod connection lower is better. Would a different tie rod end with a longer tapered bolt be an improvement (looking to see what may be available in the 'metric' taper). Or replacing the tie rod end with a heim joint and spacing the connection lower? Trying to think of other alternatives.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

This is also the old style steering arm that DF offered to replace a while back.

Yep, I have the new arms in a box somewhere. I'm just using the old arms for mock up. Thanks!

 

[Gtstorey]

Probably the easiest way to set get a Bumpsteer kit is to use the a Corvette tie rod end and by a reamer to match the taper. Even trying to use a heim joint is problematic since you still have a tapered hole to deal with.
I still like my method of drilling a new hole in the knuckle. I moved the steering arm down until bumpsteer was pretty much eliminated, clamped the arm and drilled the knuckle. I the hole I drilled was lower by about the diameter of the hole since one overlapped the existing hole slightly.

High speed instability | Page 7 | DF Kit Car Forum

 

[Rttoys]

Is a broken steering bracket how you know?



I would not recommend drilling extra holes.

No. Thankfully, Nothing broke. Slow speed turns felt pretty good, but high speed turns were very awkward. Then, it got a death wobble when trying to slow down from highway speeds, that almost put me in a ditch. That was enough for me.

Did you drill the steering arm or the knuckle? I drilled a new hole on the knuckle to lower the steering arm.

I drilled the knuckle.

 

[Gtstorey]

I drilled the knuckle.

How did you determine where to drill? I haven't had any problems with mine.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

A question to those who have corrected the bumpsteer issue: what is the height of the steering arm/ball joint junction (bottom edge of the steering arm) referenced to the bottom edge of your frame - and/or - the angle of your tie rod (referenced to a zero from your frame level, like the upper halo)?

 

[Rttoys]

How did you determine where to drill? I haven't had any problems with mine.

It was very scientific. Haha. I had the arm in the top hole up front and pushed the arm down until it hit the nut that holds the hub in the back. Marked and drilled. This brought the tie rod down a good ways, but it also brought it forward, which is probably where the problem lies. This also made it possible for me to turn enough to make my wheel hit the control arm (I would have corrected that with steering stops).

If I were to do it over, I would have the arm in the bottom hole up front and bring the back down as stated before. This would probably work, but I goofed my hub with the first hole, so I can’t really do a second. Almost all of my steering issues are gone, so my focus is rear now.

 

[Gtstorey]

That's a lot more than I tried to push mine down. I mounted a mirror to the hub and reflected a laser to piece of cardboard and traced the deflection as I cycled the suspension. I never got to the point of being able to actually measure the amount of bumpsteer, but I was able to tell that it reduced (and probably mostly eliminated) it after dropping it about 3/8" measured at the rear hole for the steering arm mount.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Took some precise measurements of the upright - right side up versus upside down. The steering bracket holes, top and bottom, remained the same for both orientations. I was wrong on the location of the bearing hub hole, it doesn't change position if the upright is flipped. The red dots are the steering arm holes in the right side up orientation, the green are for the upside down. The wide lines, red or green, are the bisecting lines between the sets of holes for steering arm. The thin red line (L) is the lowest possible position for the steering arm right side up. The 3 green lines are the possible positions upside down. The measurements on the left indicate how much lower the steering arm can be mounted versus the lowest red line. Any thoughts?

 

[Gtstorey]

I think the green will likely be to much (to low). I have castor set to about 9 degrees which I think is about all you would want so any lower on the steering arm will be to much. But I don't know that you are going to be able to determine what you need to do until it's assembled and you actually cycle the suspension and determine exactly where the steering arm needs to be. I would assemble with the upright/knuckle in the normal position, steering arm on the thin red and correct when doing wheel alignment as necessary.

 

[Ross]

You guys got me wondering if I installed mine correctly. Here is a pic of my right wheel then Adam's left wheel.

When Dale & I checked bump steer, I needed to go a little lower than I currently am... but if I flipped the upright, I'm pretty sure it would be too low.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Ok, idea time. If a 3rd steering arm mount hole is drilled on the caliper mount side of the upright nearest the largest lightening hole, at the same 1/2 inch center-to-center spacing and in the correct arc spacing to the opposite side, the following positions are possible for the right side up - pink dot and line - or the purple dot and line. The pink line is 3/16 inch lower than the original red line (lowest right side up upright orientation) or 1/2 inch lower (uppermost upside down orientation). This would give more options to achieve help minimize bumpsteer.

 

[Gtstorey]

You guys got me wondering if I installed mine correctly. Here is a pic of my right wheel then Adam's left wheel.
View attachment 37371 View attachment 37370

When Dale & I checked bump steer, I needed to go a little lower than I currently am... but if I flipped the upright, I'm pretty sure it would be too low.

I’m not sure that the position of the “L” bracket really matters if you got the alignment where to want it without screwing the heim joints out to much.

 

[Gtstorey]

Ok, idea time. If a 3rd steering arm mount hole is drilled on the caliper mount side of the upright nearest the largest lightening hole, at the same 1/2 inch center-to-center spacing and in the correct arc spacing to the opposite side, the following positions are possible for the right side up - pink dot and line - or the purple dot and line. The pink line is 3/8 inch lower than the original red line (lowest right side up upright orientation) or 1/2 inch lower (uppermost upside down orientation). This would give more options to achieve help minimize bumpsteer.

That looks like it will be close to where I ended up.

 

[Ross]

Well...if the one on the left...is right...mine are screwed up too!

Notice both "flanges" for the ball mounts are on the inside of the upright, on the left photo.

Oops... I forgot to mention that Lonny did some special mods for my front swingarms.

 

[comegetjoe]

I wish I knew more of what you guys are so passionately going back and forth about. I feel like without it in my hand, its just out of reach. *subbed regardless

 

[Ross]

Basically, we a talking about different ways to remove bump steer.
Theoretically, when the suspension rises and falls, the wheels don't move left or right.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Basically, we a talking about different ways to remove bump steer.
Theoretically, when the suspension rises and falls, the wheels don't move left or right (My edit) independently from steering inputs. Essentially hitting a bump, the steering wheel is held straight, but the car wants to dart left or right.