Tuning from ZZP on "tube chassis"

[comegetjoe]

So Im looking at the Head, Cams and a Tune package and there is a $500 mark up if the parts are installed and tuned in a "tube chassis" (assumed to be a goblin) They go on to say...
"Custom Engine Swaps: This option is for anyone looking to tune a vehicle that did not come with an LNF originally. You MUST choose this option if you are tuning a tube chassis car, sand rail, LNF engine retro fit into an older chassis, etc. Do not try to cheap out and purchase a tune from another year/make/model, we will find out and will not continue the tuning process if so."

Whats the big deal? Whether its a goblin or a cobalt, a tune is a tune and youre still getting your money. Tell me its not about their precious cobalts ffs...

 

[Robinjo]

I also saw that and it was confusing. Who cares what your tuning on, it’s still just basically a Cobalt minus 1500 pounds and the engine in the proper spot.
You could go to the tuning section and pull a tune there that is as close as possible to your setup and use it as a jumping off point. It will not be the finished deal, just a reference point.
Or just send your ECM with mods listed and give them the Cobalt VIN?

 

[Gtstorey]

I would not want to tune an LNF by sending an ECM to someone. It needs to be an iterative process of Tune and Log to get things dialed in. It might work ok otherwise for just a basic tune on a stock Cobalt setup, but just getting the MAF dialed in on a modified LNF will take 3-4 iterations (and probably more to get it perfect). Then 3-4 to get boost adjusted. Then timing. At this point, MAF might need another tweak.

The additional money that ZZP charges for swaps may be because of the additional iterations to get the MAF dialed in on a swap vehicle plus all of the additional headaches that can be involved in a swap. A lot of people consider trouble shooting the swap to get it running a part of tuning.

 

[Rttoys]

Zzp hates us. that is all

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

The horror! Those Goblin builders have destroyed hundreds of perfectly good Cobalts! And the 4 door SS models, oh my, they should be banned from purchasing any more of these future collector cars!

 

[Rttoys]

Makes me want to buy every ss out there and strip them down for parts, especially the 4 door ss. I’d even get one of them instafacespacetube accounts to document it everywhere.

 

[Chubbs]

I suspect the additional money is for the time necessary to kill all the CEL codes for our goblins. o2 sensor codes, evap codes, maybe an AC code...there's several of them that need to be disabled for a goblin, but not on a Cobalt.

IF that's the case, it's a ripoff. It probably took me 20 minutes to un-tick all the boxes and kill all the codes.

I would not want to tune an LNF by sending an ECM to someone. It needs to be an iterative process of Tune and Log to get things dialed in.

This right here. I literally have over 100 saved tunes that I have iterated for my goblin over the last year. 100. No joke. Tweaking little things here and there, driving, logging, then tweaking again. It takes about an hour to get it running so it will sputter down the street...it takes months to get it running really well in all conditions, at all RPMs and throttle openings. ZZP can't do that for all cars over email.

 

[Gtstorey]

I don’t totally agree that they can’t tune it via e-mail. I think a tuner experienced with the LNF can do it fairly well via e-mail. My comment was directed towards the “send them your ECM” which some tuners still do.

 

[Goblinfanclub1234]

maybe some customers brought in builds that were in no way ready for the dyno and ZZP was like NOPE. I am just running an off the shelf K04 map for now and it runs pretty great.

 

[Sluggonaut]

I thought I saw it explained somewhere and the price is due to all the extra time spent on tuning the platform once it's transplanted into something else. I know they have enough challenges tuning OEM cars not properly maintained, but those issues can be exponentially greater in non-OEM builds.

 

[SmsDetroit]

I bought a ECU from them with a stage 2 tune. They wanted the $500 for a tube chassis. I told them to tune it for me cobalt and gave them the vin. It fired right up but had issues at the upper ends of the rpm. I changed the tune to one sent to me by a goblin member and wow does it run better.

 

[ncgoblin]

I am on the fence regarding this new charge because honestly its been a lot of work for ZZP to dial in many of my tunes especially since I went with Fuel Factory Injectors. I believe my e85 tune supercharged took 20+ renditions to dial in using HP Tuners and I am currently on rendition 15+ on my Turbo LSJ since I had to swap out the MAF mid-tune to the HPX (start all over). Al at ZZP has been amazing and for the price I do not realistically see a cheaper option I would already be upwards of $600+ having to go to a dyno, swap out the map and return.

These guys have to account for their labor and at this rate I am getting the better end of the deal.

 

[Gtstorey]

I am on the fence regarding this new charge because honestly its been a lot of work for ZZP to dial in many of my tunes especially since I went with Fuel Factory Injectors. I believe my e85 tune supercharged took 20+ renditions to dial in using HP Tuners and I am currently on rendition 15+ on my Turbo LSJ since I had to swap out the MAF mid-tune to the HPX (start all over). Al at ZZP has been amazing and for the price I do not realistically see a cheaper option I would already be upwards of $600+ having to go to a dyno, swap out the map and return.

Not sure that would have been much if any different if still in a Cobalt.

 

[ncgoblin]

Not sure that would have been much if any different if still in a Cobalt.

I agree but I believe the concern is they have had to troubleshoot other issues on the Goblins to get an initial idle tune because some customers have had vacuum and wiring issues prior to the tune. This may be less of a problem with a pre-running cobalt.

I am not saying maybe they just do not enjoy working on the Goblins but I believe they are taking the average time of a gobin tune vs cobalt and justifying the hike...I may be wrong.

 

[Gtstorey]

I agree but I believe the concern is they have had to troubleshoot other issues on the Goblins to get an initial idle tune because some customers have had vacuum and wiring issues prior to the tune. This may be less of a problem with a pre-running cobalt.

I am not saying maybe they just do not enjoy working on the Goblins but I believe they are taking the average time of a gobin tune vs cobalt and justifying the hike...I may be wrong.

This isn't just directed at the Goblin. Lot of Ecotecs being installed in sandrail type vehicles. They show up with a lot of problems on HPT forums.

 

[Sluggonaut]

Their pricing is probably like actuarial pricing in insurance. In some cases, it may be higher than it should be and makes up for the cases where they are not charging enough. They could switch to an hourly pricing model but many people want a specific price up front and you just can't provide that in an hourly pricing model.

 

[GoblinGuyZ]

Ryan told me that the different load from weight difference and intake variation and shorter exhaust requires specialized tuning. It seems a bit drastic to say we will find out and refuse service, after all it's the customers vehicle, make your disclaimer bold and clear and sell it as the better option and call it a day. If the customer doesnt get what they want out of it then thats at them. Hard to imagine the difference would be so extreme that it would cause engine failure unless the tune was right on the edge with no margin for error. It feels as though they are penalizing you for having something other than a Cobalt. I've spent alot of money with them and still sometimes get a sort of unwilling vibe when it comes to support or assistance. I had an issue I posted here several months back with a HP Tuners I got from them that basically temporarily bricked my PCM which I also got from them and I could not drive the car for several weeks. Their response was sort of oh well I guess just wait and see. I understand ultimately it was out of their control but still as a business owner sometimes a little empathetic response to what is a fairly serious issue with parts that they supplied would go a long way.

 

[JBINTX]

And the odd part of this is that at least one builder has physically brought their Goblin to ZZP where he paid them a few hours on their own dyno with their techs to tune his Goblin. And. They did a great job! Outputs show 300hp. I know this because I am fortunate to have the same setup as him and share the same tune. It is awesome. So, it’s not like our Goblins are unknown to them. Not sure how many others they have dyno’ d or what other engine versions they have seen. They can do it. For whatever reason, they seem to not be engaging the opportunity. It’s not like they are still making Cobalts.…..

 

[GoblinGuyZ]

And the odd part of this is that at least one builder has physically brought their Goblin to ZZP where he paid them a few hours on their own dyno with their techs to tune his Goblin. And. They did a great job! Outputs show 300hp. I know this because I am fortunate to have the same setup as him and share the same tune. It is awesome. So, it’s not like our Goblins are unknown to them. Not sure how many others they have dyno’ d or what other engine versions they have seen. They can do it. For whatever reason, they seem to not be engaging the opportunity. It’s not like they are still making Cobalts.…..

Yes you would think if anything that the renewed interest in the Cobalt engine etc would increase their sales but seems they're choosing to look at it more like we're talking potential cars of the market, maybe then they cant sell the coilovers and exhaust parts etc but to be honest for the most part donor cars are junkers that anyone looking to modify a cobalt will probably overlook

 

[finazzoty]

The horror! Those Goblin builders have destroyed hundreds of perfectly good Cobalts! And the 4 door SS models, oh my, they should be banned from purchasing any more of these future collector cars!

Ryan was squawking about this on one of their podcasts a while ago “stop tearin em apart for stupid goblins!”