"Usable" Daily Driver HP

[dgascho]

I realize this question is all a matter of opinion, just looking for some input from personal experience, especially from anyone who's personally compared both. I'm looking to soon buy a goblin as a logical next step from my experience with cobalts. I have built/worked on plenty of ecotecs, my most recent being an 09 SS/TC sedan with an LDK build. s566et turbo, 500+hp to the front wheels, and know all too well how useless that hp is, most of the time.

Based on the weight distribution of the goblin, total curb weight, rear wheel drive, etc. how much horsepower is the max useable? By "useable" I mean in a car that will be 98% driven on the street for fun. Sure, I'll be trying to beat every supercar off the line, and huge horsepower can work from a roll, but I'll probably run Pilot Sport 4Ss or something similar. Assuming not slicks on a prepped track, mostly just visiting car shows. I'm used to overbuilt ecotecs, and worried I'll be disappointed with a supercharged option.

All just opinion, but do you think there's a significant difference in average/daily street performance between 250 and 350 hp? What this translates to is: will I be satisfied with a fully built supercharged option, or need to go turbo? Another way of asking it is: 0-60 in a factory supercharged option (even if tuned/built to the max) vs. a turbo option? Sure turbo has a higher ceiling, but significantly quicker?

Any input appreciated. Pics just for attention.

 

[Stretch2126]

I make a true 350 wheel on mine. 6758 LNF with valve springs and meth injection. I have rt660s as a street tire and if they aren’t fresh and warm second gear gets questionable. Also depends on where you live cause here in Florida the heat makes it fun to keep IATs down.
Haven’t raced any super cars but pulled away on an auto C7 and when I made 270 wheel I was next to a supercharged 5.0 for a little until about 100. (At a track of course…)

 

[Ark :D]

The 290 I get out of my mildly-tuned LNF Goblin is plenty to satisfy me. I live in the northeast where only about half the year is drivable in a topless car, so I have some experience with spirited driving in cooler temps. I run Firehawk Indy 500 tires in 255 and 275 widths and for street driving, I never feel at risk of losing it.

Would I add some horsepower? The thought is always there but in the end, I'm good with it where it's at. 290 in the Goblin feels stronger than 400-450 in Mustangs I've owned in the past.

 

[dgascho]

Appreciate the replies, that is what I'm looking for. It sounds like a conservative/reliably built turbo option will make me happy. No need to push it too crazy, as I won't get the good out of it. Somewhere in the 300s feels like a good balance.

 

[Ark :D]

@Justinreed7 lol. I'm sure your input would be welcomed.

 

[dgascho]

Oh I know he has big hp, but I wouldn't say he only drives it on the street lol. Trust me, I chase numbers as much as the next guy (who would build a 500 whp cobalt?!). I think I've already got my answer, and that turbo is def where I'll be happy, but a moderate build on stock internals is probably good enough as a starting point.

 

[devianteng]

Justin's build dynoed around 550, but he runs lower boost for about 450hp for hill climb. Don't think he does much (if any) street driving.

Mine is LSJ with M62 and 2.7 pulley, with supporting mods. Should be around 275whp and for street driving on a 200tw tire, it can absolutely get sketchy if you want sketchy. I feel much more confident with a 100tw tire on the street. If I were to build a street only car, 300hp would be my top end goal and I bet I'd stay blower with a TVS setup.
However, I'm slowly piecing my turbo swap and on full power I'm looking for 450. Probably run 350-375 for autox, with a smaller turbo like a Xona 4951.

 

[jirwin]

I have what @devianteng is talking about - 300whp with a TVS. It's more than enough for me, but I'm starting to drag race it so I'm going for more power. As far as just streeting it it's great. Very linear power and therefore controllable. I've went stock 2.2 to M62 to forged 2.2 with TVS and E85. The M62 wasn't quite enough at ~230hp. The TVS/E85 build is a handful at 300hp. I miss being able to hit a corner at full speed and flooring it like I could with the M62 (granted I was only on 205 200TWs). The 300hp setup you have to respect a little bit more because as @Ark :D said you won't have traction in second until the tires warm up.

 

[Rttoys]

Like most here, I have an LSJ in the 230-250 range. It’s a handful if you are not experienced with the car. Just Cruising it’s just fine though, with plenty of usable power on tap. Good tires will help any major oopp’s, but they will wear quickly.

I have driven JBinTX’s LNF, which should be equivalent to Ark’s around the 280-300 range. Without slicks, it’s a handful, but still a controllable handful on the street. Without slicks slicks, theres a lot of room for extra power.

again. Tires are key.

 

[Sluggonaut]

The nice thing about the turbo option is that you can add a boost controller. I have a 12 psi setting and a 22 psi setting. I keep it at 12 psi on cold days or if the tires aren't cooperating. I was thinking about adding settings in between, but found at 12 psi I don't have traction issues at any temperature and at 22 psi I max out the fun of the little K04.

With any build, you're always happy with the power until you aren't - then you want more. Using a boost controller, you can reserve some of the extra power for later and just dial it in when you want more.

 

[Justinreed7]

True useable hp with a street tire is 400whp with a great alignment. 550whp is useable with a slick and a managed foot on the street. Over 550whp over powers the chassis and becomes very darty on power. The magic hp number for the goblin for the most enjoyable drive is 400whp.

 

[WA08TC]

I agree with Justin on this one. With the old turbo setup on the Ar1 275 rear the car was fun @420hp. When I moved up in turbo do to the turbo going bad and was tuning the tires wouldn't hold it during the process so moved up to ET Street R Mickeys. I run around the street @440 and hooks 2nd gear. When I take it to the track I run the 530 tune. And it's def gets darty without a firm grip on the steering wheel. For the street 400ish seems to be the sweet spot.

 

[LLBenJ]

I'm at 287 rear wheel with the TVS and the 200TW tires are tapped out. I'd have to go to a dot legal slick to push the car any harder.

 

[Gage]

I've owned many lightweight cars in the 1,500 to 2,300 lb range. In my experience, 300 to 350 wheel horsepower (whp) has always been a "usable" amount. Much beyond that, and you start needing to compensate for serious traction issues and other challenges. In a car under 1,500 pounds, 300 to 350 whp is an absolute blast. Desired power levels directly equate to what kind of car you are building, a streetable car, or a drag racer.

Once you go past a certain threshold, usable power becomes highly dependent on traction limitations.

I cannot stress this enough: most people don’t truly understand the power-to-weight ratio of a sub-1,500 lb car. They think they do—but they don’t. Keep listening to the experienced Goblin owners who are actually putting down 300+ whp in something that light as a feather.

 

[Chubbs]

I'm convinced most people on this website are insane.

With my LSJ and basic mods, I'm probably around 240hp, and it's a handful around an autox course. I've been able to dial most of the bad tendencies out, but it will still light up the rear around any corner even at partial throttle. It'll swap ends in an instant, and for the most part, the power is as much of a liability as it is an asset. It takes a very steady throttle foot to get it around a course cleanly, without over-driving it.

on the street, 0-60 happens as fast as I can shift it, and I don't feel like more power will make it measurably faster. It needs a driver upgrade, not a power upgrade. Above 60? Sure, more power could be used, but it's still plenty fast until it gets to 100. Do to go faster than that? Ok, maybe you'll need more, but I don't take mine to 100 very often. If you're running 100+ regularly, 300+ hp might be welcome.

 

[WA08TC]

Most of the time over 100-130 somewhat in puts you in a slip stream depending on down force, only way I can describe it is like doing a wheelie on a bike on the freeway, depending on the road of course. I notice it getting squirrelly more on decel at those speeds but that's just something I need to iron out.