MOOG K201285- which side is UP?

[LaunchPad]

Well my temporary fix is in. the MOOG K201285 bushings showed up. i noticed they are tapered on one side and offset 1/4inch from being centered. So which goes up as the arms are fit in the car?

it will be a bit of a shame to paint these old beat-up arms i cleaned up. While not a mirror finish like another set i saw on the forum. . . i do like the wire brush effect! Especially so compared to the state they were in beforehand.

 

[Ross]

Does careful inspection of the original parts tell us which way the 1/4" offset goes?

 

[LaunchPad]

Not on the ones i have available. We gad to cut the control arms out of the cradle with abrasives because the metal ceters had long since disconnected from the rubber.

 

[LaunchPad]

This reminds me that i also need to find specs for those bolts. . . .there was not enough of ours to measure either threads or lengths

 

[TheAnesthetist]

Lower control arm Bolt - Cobalt SS Network

General Cobalt - Lower control arm Bolt - My lowr control bolt broke in my 06 Chevy colbolt. I'm having a hard time finding the replacement part and number anyone know where I can get one. Links appreciated. I have a pic of the old I don't know how to post it. Big long bolt.0 0

www.cobaltss.net

 

[LaunchPad]

Lower control arm Bolt - Cobalt SS Network

General Cobalt - Lower control arm Bolt - My lowr control bolt broke in my 06 Chevy colbolt. I'm having a hard time finding the replacement part and number anyone know where I can get one. Links appreciated. I have a pic of the old I don't know how to post it. Big long bolt.0 0

www.cobaltss.net

thank you. . .the site gave a part number which can be purchased on amazon.

amazon.com/Genuine-GM-11589009-Drivetrain-Suspension/dp/B000QIR3OM?ref_=nav_signin&qty=2

 

[LaunchPad]

this is not specific to my question of what side is up but it is general instructions from the SUSPENSION.com/moog site.

How-To Install a Bushing Without a Press | Suspension.com

 

[ah.b.normal]

This is only a theory, Tapered side up, pressed in from the bottom so that the ring and boot wouldn't hold water. It's just a theory, I ain't married to it! Waiting to hear your final disposition as I will have to press in 4 of those. My GOB-BALT has the same subframe front and back.(I haven't seen a stock rubber one that wasn't torn, except on new parts!)

 

[LaunchPad]

This is only a theory, Tapered side up, pressed in from the bottom so that the ring and boot wouldn't hold water. It's just a theory, I ain't married to it! Waiting to hear your final disposition as I will have to press in 4 of those. My GOB-BALT has the same subframe front and back.(I haven't seen a stock rubber one that wasn't torn, except on new parts!)

Hey there AB! Maybe some concrete pour on the MR-1 mill today. . .waiting for the mills computer to update windows so I can pull up the detailed instructions. .

That is a good theory and i looked at it this morning when i went out. unfortunately, BOTH ends of the MOOG have the rubber U shaped like in my photo above.

My current line of thought is to install such that the anti-SQUAT component of the control arm gets the extra 1/4 to the lower side on the REAR of the arm. I am currently perusing the site to find image of the arms mounted on a DONE car to verify what the actual rear lower IS. . . I am fairly confident i know which is which but I want a picture in hand before pressing these in because getting the MOOGs out will not be quite as easy as stock and likely expensive.

 

[ah.b.normal]

Thanks DOOD! Keeping all digits intersected for a good concrete pour!, winter's coming and pouring just gets harder/more complicated with the cold. A Civil E buddy told me that initially cement goes off and produces heat but as the heat dissipates, water at the perimeter can freeze and disrupt proper setting. He would know, Alberta Oil field work. Apparently permafrost is only your friend below freezing, because everything is frozen then!

 

[LaunchPad]

The makers of the mill use concrete to increase weight and stiffness of the machine- but they pour in inside the metal enclosure so getting it to properly dry is a real art form. Also, putting this KIT together is about 3 times more daunting than the goblin. MR-1 CNC Gantry Mill | Langmuir Systems it saved me a few thousand dollars on ordering but sure delayed making parts!

Ideally, I will get the concrete in by COB today (50/50 chance now) and then can epoxy same time next week and be making things the week following. . . . .

but i digress. . . still looking for good top down photo of arms installed on the goblin

 

[TheAnesthetist]

Looks like @Rttoys has some experience with these. Any advice?

http://dfkitcar.com/forum/index.php?threads/goblin-rear-control-arms.3498/post-70926

 

[Gtstorey]

I don't remember overthinking the Moog install. Tapered in goes in first, stop when the bushing is centered. Don't think it matters which end is up.

 

[LaunchPad]

I don't remember overthinking the Moog install. Tapered in goes in first, stop when the bushing is centered. Don't think it matters which end is up.

Well the Moog joint is a full 1/4" off center so getting it in backwards does change things by a full 1/2". height difference between front of control arms and back of the control arms. At the very minimum I am 100% positive I want the left and right sides to match- at least my error will be consistent left to right of the car. LOL

it has been ~20 years since I took vehicle dynamics, and a McPherson rear end is a bit of a rare creature for determining anti-squat. . . .BUT anti-dive for a McPherson is not that vague and for all intents and purposes a mirror image to squat characteristics. . . . the angle of the control arm is not with out effect (IC?) tho i seem to remember the top of the struct on Mcpherson controls dive or squat more than anything else.

Anti Squat, Dive and Lift Geometry – Geometry Explained Suspension Secrets
Anti-Squat Suspension Geometry - Explained - YouTube

My car has yet to flip right side up in its assembly process so I can't take measurements just yet to verify setup preference but i kind of need to get these parts assembled and paints so i can get to the assembly.

 

[Sebnuts]

A plane that is perpendicular to the strut's rod axis, that intersects the upper pivot point, is what would be the upper control arm plane for doing geometry calculations. A plane that goes through the 3 joints on the lower control arm is it's plane. The side view plane goes through the center of the tire contact patch. Where these 3 planes intersect at a single point in space is the instant center (IC).

Then anti squat is just:

where "l" is the wheelbase.

 

[Ross]

I measured the stock rubber bushing at 13mm hanging out of both sides of a steel arm.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Just my opinion, install the Moog bushings to move the rear end of the control arms lower as mounted - this gets into better geometry that @Sebnuts is explaining above. There are also at least a couple thread posts in the forum that discusses anti-squat at length and how the geometry needs to adjusted for the stock subframe and control arms.

 

[Rttoys]

General rule of thumb is flat side goes up, so you you minimize water and debris intrusion.

 

[LaunchPad]

Just my opinion, install the Moog bushings to move the rear end of the control arms lower as mounted - this gets into better geometry that @Sebnuts is explaining above. There are also at least a couple thread posts in the forum that discusses anti-squat at length and how the geometry needs to adjusted for the stock subframe and control arms.

THIS. yes this is what i am wanting to lean towards. it will not be hugely significant in the final number but instead of making things worse it nudged it the correct direction!