V1 Flat Towing

[Jareth]

Wanted to add to the following post from Lonny:

http://dfkitcar.com/forum/index.php?threads/flat-towing-the-goblin-any-guides.960/post-19106

I found the following info online that I wanted to add to the discussion and debate?

"you should never flat tow one. in an automatic the pump is driven directly off the torque converter. when the engine isn't running the pump will not turn. what happens when you flat tow it is there is no lube flow to the gear train and it will burn the bushings and bearings up and eventually do major damage to the planetary gear sets. the only way you can properly flat tow and automatic is with the engine running and tranny in neutral. this allows the pump to turn and you will have the normal lube flow."

I then also found a post that stated the following.

"With the change to the Hydra-Matic 4T45-E as the optional transmission, all Ions now can be flat-towed – pulled behind another vehicle without the need for a special dolly – making Ion an ideal choice for RV owners.
Since the Cobalt uses the same transmissions as the Ions there should be no reason you cannot flat-tow a Cobalt as well. The document didn't specify whether it mattered or not if you have limited slip, so that should be safe as well."

.

 

[Rauq]

It does coincide with my understanding that most GM 2wd automatics are not flat-towable, but I have also found literature indicating that the 4T45 is flat-towable.

See also below from a 2009 Cobalt Owner's Manual:

 

[Sluggonaut]

I know my RV friends reference this guide - this one is for 2009.

It says both the 2009 Cobalt manual and auto are flat towable with no limit on distance and a 65mph speed limit.

 

[Lonny]

We flat tow or automatic goblins all over. What I read is that you should start the engine for a few minutes every 300 miles. We just start it everytime we fill up.

 

[k.rollin]

@DanPerryy added a 12V pump driven off his tow pig to circulate ATF while flat towing the goblin.

Automatic Transmission Flat Tow Re-Circulation Pump

I will be towing my Goblin with tiny diameter tires and HHR transmission (top speed will be under 120 at redline) so towing at recommended 65 MPH on a stock setup would have me have to tow at 50-55 MPH to keep the trans revs equivalent. I normally drive at 70. Additionally recommendation is...

dfkitcar.com

 

[Ark :D]

Bumping an old thread here, because vacation season is rapidly approaching and for the first time, I am considering flat-towing my Goblin to the beach at the end of July/beginning of August. We'll be restarting our annual tradition of going to Ocean City, MD, following a few years of foregoing it due to COVID. It's about 170 miles from my home, and a bit over 3 hours, so I'm a little nervous about it.

I've read the concerns about flat-towing automatics, and while I see that's not really an issue, I never had to worry about that because I have an F35. That being said, I wanted to confirm how to PROPERLY flat-tow one of these cars.

According to the GM manual snippet posted by Rauq, you're supposed to remove the ignition/PK3 fuse from the BCM, turn the ignition to the accessory position, and put the trans in neutral. Just checking why this is necessary; is it to have power to the power-steering motor during the tow?

Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Gtstorey]

I think the manual only applies to the Cobalt since that is likely to unlock the steering without draining the battery.

 

[Fozda]

Do you have the tow bar package from DF? I used mine for the first time on Sunday when I blew up the engine at autocross and it worked flawlessly! We don't have to worry about the steering lock mechanism so no need to turn the key on and pull fuses. I picked up a magnetic towing light kit from Harbor Freight cause it was just way easier than trying to wire into the Goblin lights.

 

[Ark :D]

Do you have the tow bar package from DF? I used mine for the first time on Sunday when I blew up the engine at autocross and it worked flawlessly! We don't have to worry about the steering lock mechanism so no need to turn the key on and pull fuses. I picked up a magnetic towing light kit from Harbor Freight cause it was just way easier than trying to wire into the Goblin lights.

Yep! I've used it a couple times, but never for a tow of more than a few minutes. I made the effort of wiring into the BCM when I was building the car and it works fine.

Thanks @Fozda and @Gtstorey for the info, I didn't even consider the steering lock as the reason.

 

[Sluggonaut]

I picked up a magnetic towing light kit from Harbor Freight cause it was just way easier than trying to wire into the Goblin lights.

I just used wire taps for the 3 wires - it was the easiest wiring task far for me so far.

 

[Sebnuts]

I flat towed my goblin to the State Hwy Patrol this last weekend for inspection. It was fine on the highway and straights, but dragging it through turns just felt wrong, I could feel the goblin's tires dragging and it was shaking the ass end of my truck. This was my first time flat towing anything, are turns just like this or is there something wrong with my setup?

 

[Sluggonaut]

I towed mine over 10 hours to Goblin Fest last year and had no issues whatsoever.

If the tires are dragging there's something going on back there.

 

[Robinjo]

I could 'feel' my Goblin behind our Mazda CX-50 but never felt like it was dragging. I think you may have had you parking brake on or been in gear? If not, then something is sticking and causing issues.

5 hours to Auburn and 6 hours to Gatlinburg. The latter was pulled through the National Forrest up and down hills with no problems.

 

[Sebnuts]

I'm sure it wasn't in gear and the parking brake was off. I would have felt those going straight as well. I'm thinking the goblin wheels just weren't turning for some reason. Maybe something to do with my Ackerman adjustments.

 

[Robinjo]

Were the wheels touching the control arms? You'd be able to see the evidence on the control arms.

What are Ackerman adjustments?

 

[Ross]

Your caster angle is what allows the front wheels to follow. Especially turning cornering. Of course there is lots of other things it could be.

 

[Sebnuts]

Were the wheels touching the control arms? You'd be able to see the evidence on the control arms.

What are Ackerman adjustments?

The wheels/tires do not touch the control arms. All the clearance is good while driving the goblin on it's own.

I redesigned the front suspension and went with a parallel steer setup (street cars typically use Ackermann, as does the stock goblin setup)

Your caster angle is what allows the front wheels to follow. Especially turning cornering. Of course there is lots of other things it could be.

I was thinking caster too, but I ended up with a little over 8.2°. Doesn't seem like a significant difference over the 8.5°-9.5° recommended by Adam in the DIY alignment post.

 

[Gtstorey]

I think you will need to have someone in the car while turning in a parking lot to try and determine what is going on.

I have seen the wheels on a car being towed behind a motorhome that wouldn't return to center occasionally. Never really tied down what was going on. Always thought it was how much the rear overhang of the motorhome swung around quickly, not allowing the wheels time to track with it.

 

[baustin]

How high is your tow ball? If it's above the pull point on the goblin it takes weight off the front wheels when turning and they are too light to have caster control the turning. I had that when I first started flat towing mine. I swapped to a drop hitch that was 3-4 inches lower and it got below the goblin pull point. Turning, especially sharper like at stop signs, is muuucccch better now.

 

[Sebnuts]

How high is your tow ball? If it's above the pull point on the goblin it takes weight off the front wheels when turning and they are too light to have caster control the turning. I had that when I first started flat towing mine. I swapped to a drop hitch that was 3-4 inches lower and it got below the goblin pull point. Turning, especially sharper like at stop signs, is muuucccch better now.

My hitch is adjustable and I had it adjusted as close to level as I could get, which ended up being just a little higher than the mount point on the goblin. I'll try dropping down to the lowest setting and see if that makes a difference, thanks for the tip!