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V1 ATI Harmonic Balancer

Sparvy

Well-Known Member
Sparvy
If anyone that has installed the ATI balancer has any tips please share them. I know that it is an interference fit but even heated it is far from fitting over the crankshaft. I do have an LS installation tool that is due to come in the next few days so hopefully that works. Even if the tool ends up working I'm concerned that if the keyway isn't perfectly lined up that it won't go on correctly and then I would need the special ATI removal tool to get it off to try again.
 
duthehustle93
ATI's are typically always a press fit, even when heated they will typically not be a slip fit. I think it explicitly says in the instructions to not do this, but most people lightly sand the ID, biasing material removal slightly at the starting side, to make the interference fit less aggressive. I did this on an engine that has ~4 years of race use on it and it's still fine. I originally started installing it out of the box and it was going on fine but it seemed tighter than I'd like, to where I'd be struggling to ever remove it. Heat, grease, add an alignment mark, and install it with hand tools. As your tightening down the damper to install, it doesn't require a lot of torque on the bolt to get it moving. If you miss the keyway, the good news is you would likely feel it. I've never missed the keyway but I'd imagine you'd feel it with how little torque I had to apply to drive down the balancer. I also filed a small chamfer into the leading edge of the keyway on the balancer, which might have helped as well. I've yet to remove an ATI damper, just install, but I've heard removing them after they've been in service for several years is a PITA.
 
jirwin
I used a damper/harmonic balancer tool to press it on. Extending the keyway on the crank makes it so you don't get misaligned. The first time it went on it was very snug. the second time, it went on much easier. I wouldn't file/sand it personally.
 
Sparvy
ATI's are typically always a press fit, even when heated they will typically not be a slip fit. I think it explicitly says in the instructions to not do this, but most people lightly sand the ID, biasing material removal slightly at the starting side, to make the interference fit less aggressive. I did this on an engine that has ~4 years of race use on it and it's still fine. I originally started installing it out of the box and it was going on fine but it seemed tighter than I'd like, to where I'd be struggling to ever remove it. Heat, grease, add an alignment mark, and install it with hand tools. As your tightening down the damper to install, it doesn't require a lot of torque on the bolt to get it moving. If you miss the keyway, the good news is you would likely feel it. I've never missed the keyway but I'd imagine you'd feel it with how little torque I had to apply to drive down the balancer. I also filed a small chamfer into the leading edge of the keyway on the balancer, which might have helped as well. I've yet to remove an ATI damper, just install, but I've heard removing them after they've been in service for several years is a PITA.
Thank you for the tips. It's much appreciated as I've never had a crank pulley on any car fit this snuggly. I'll use some heat, installation tool and a bit of patience.
 
duthehustle93
Thank you for the tips. It's much appreciated as I've never had a crank pulley on any car fit this snuggly. I'll use some heat, installation tool and a bit of patience.
No problem. To clarify, if you decide to sand it, I put mine in a lathe at low speed so I didn’t mess up concentricity and hit it with 1000 grit… probably more of a “polish” than “sand” and I probably only removed .0002-.0003”.
 
ncgoblin
After many attempts to find the correct kit to push/pull my ATI balancer one of the community members suggested purchasing a harbor freight pulley kit and weld the old harmonic balancer bolt to it which will give you the correct length and thread pattern. The harmonic bolt is TTY anyways so a new one will have to be purchased with removal.
 
jirwin
This reminded me, I did go to Mid State (local fastener supplier) to get an extra long damper bolt. Using that, a bunch of washers, and the old damper bolt I was able to press it on. The new bolt was only required get it started as it was a lot longer.
 
Sparvy
Thanks for all of the tips. I was able to get the pulley pressed on with the proper tool. Now that it is on I'm running into a new issue (seems to be how this damper upgrade is going). The pulley seems to seat too deep and contacts the front cover with only a hand tight crank bolt. It also appears that I've got 4mm more room for the pulley to go in before it bottoms out. If I tighten the crank bolt to spec It will only crush into the cover more. It appears I need a 5mm spacer between the crank and the pulley to take up the free space. Any ideas would be appreciated.
 

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Desert Sasqwatch
Keep in mind the alignment with the other engine accessories that the belt must track with. Being off a very small amount can make the belt roll off the pulley - especially if a 6 rib belt is used.
 
Sparvy
Keep in mind the alignment with the other engine accessories that the belt must track with. Being off a very small amount can make the belt roll off the pulley - especially if a 6 rib belt is used.
It should have some room for alignment since it is an 8 rib pulley and I am running a stock 6 rib belt. Right now the motor won't even spin since the ati unit pins against the timing cover with the crank bolt hand tight. I may try a call to zzp tomorrow to see if they have run into this issue in the past.
 
Sparvy
Thought I saw something about this on the forum a while back. Did you try the search? If I remember correctly @Justin Reed is using the ATI damper - not certain if he discussed any issues. Maybe he has some info?
I did find some info on it bottoming out in one thread but it was more of a for sale thread with no posted resolution.
 
Sparvy
Issue found. The stock damper has 55mm depth to the keyway snout and the ATI has a 59.5mm keyway snout. I shouldn't have assumed it would be the correct depth I guess. Off to a machine shop I suppose.
 
ncgoblin
Issue found. The stock damper has 55mm depth to the keyway snout and the ATI has a 59.5mm keyway snout. I shouldn't have assumed it would be the correct depth I guess. Off to a machine shop I suppose.
I installed the overdrive ATI pulley from ZZP and had no issues the one detail I had to modify was grinding down some of the aluminum where the oil cooler spring is installed as shown in the PIC. Otherwise your belt will rub it does not require much grinding.
 
Sparvy
I installed the overdrive ATI pulley from ZZP and had no issues the one detail I had to modify was grinding down some of the aluminum where the oil cooler spring is installed as shown in the PIC. Otherwise your belt will rub it does not require much grinding.
I was backwards in my last post...the snout is 5mm too short...not too long. It catches about 5mm of the keyway when the pulley bottoms out on the cover and the ba k of the snout is 6mm from the end of the crankshaft so the more I tighten the crank bolt the tighter the pulley is pressed to the cover. I'm wondering if my crank somehow had managed to press towards the back of the block. The clearancing of the cover for the belt I haven't tackled yet but seems to be a piece of cake.
 
Desert Sasqwatch
No, sorry, the crankshaft would not move in the block, it's held in place by 5 sets of bearings and caps. If it had moved as far as you indicate the throws on the crankshaft would be making contact with the inside of the engine block. There has to be something about the ATI balancer that must require a longer keyway on the crank snout?
 
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G
Lot of words being used to describe this problem. The ATI pulley is longer than the crank sticking out from the cover (longer than the stock pulley)? I'm confused on how the keyway makes it rub on the cover.
 
duthehustle93
I'm also confused on how keyway depth would cause it to press too deep, IIRC that keyway is cut through and goes along the entire depth of the harmonic balancer. It should bottom out on the timing chain sprocket. I recall there being a shim in the sprocket stack on the crank, but it was really thin (never measured it... but it was definitely <0.010"). As DS said, if the crank shifted axially 5mm the engine would be completely locked up... the thrust bearings retain the crank axially and has a max limit of 0.015".

What is the difference in depth between the ATI and factory pulley at this location? If that's where you're seeing the difference in depth, I'm curious if ATI added the 2 extra ribs on the "wrong side".


47377
 
Sparvy
Lot of words being used to describe this problem. The ATI pulley is longer than the crank sticking out from the cover (longer than the stock pulley)? I'm confused on how the keyway makes it rub on the cover.
My descriptions above are a bit of a messy word salad. After going over the parts extensively it comes down to either my timing cover has managed to bow in the middle and not at the sealing surface (as that seals just fine) or somehow the crank had managed to push back in the block 5mm. The pully contacts the timing cover and if cranked down is so tight the starter cannot spin the motor. Also the pulley never seats fully onto the crank. I hope that is a bit clearer.
 
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