V1 Clutch and brake bleed question

[Sparvy]

So I took out the seal and it seems perfectly fine. Only one, so I put it on the nipple and replaced the elbow. No change.

My eyes could be deceiving me but your seal looks very short in your hand...look at post #11 where it covers the top of the pipe. In comparison when on yours it appears to be missing the top.

 

[ToothMagician]

Ok, so I think I found the issue... the zerk is leaking from around the threads...

I pulled negative pressure on the line with the zerk closed and it leaked out.. then placed a bunch of museum putty/blue tak/ticky tack around the threads and it held pressure..

I think a little plumbers tape will solve the issue. I'll report back

 

[ToothMagician]

My eyes could be deceiving me but your seal looks very short in your hand...look at post #11 where it covers the top of the pipe. In comparison when on yours it appears to be missing the top.

Seal is just the little tip part from the picture.. almost exactly the same if you look close, but that's for the F35 and I'm working with the F23. Good looking out though, thanks

 

[ToothMagician]

So I added Teflon tape to the bleeder, it's sealed now, no air leak, but I still can't get a good bleed on the system. I can pedal bleed it and it seems good, pedal feels hard but it's still not going into gear.

 

[Ross]

Why are you bleeding the clutch? Did you put a new clutch in it? New transmission?
Either you aren't moving the clutch plate, or there is a bigger issue with clutch fitment.

 

[Rauq]

So I added Teflon tape to the bleeder, it's sealed now, no air leak, but I still can't get a good bleed on the system. I can pedal bleed it and it seems good, pedal feels hard but it's still not going into gear.

Does it go into gear with the engine off?

 

[ToothMagician]

Why are you bleeding the clutch? Did you put a new clutch in it? New transmission?
Either you aren't moving the clutch plate, or there is a bigger issue with clutch fitment.

New Master cylinder, and lines have air in them.

Does it go into gear with the engine off?

It does

 

[Rauq]

This obviously won't be a super constructive comment, but I have consistently advocated for pressure bleeding vs vacuum bleeding. I'm not 100% sure this is the issue you're experiencing, but at least on my Goblin, the lines between the reservoir and the clutch and brake masters will leak air into the system when vacuum bleeding, but do not leak brake fluid out with pressure bleeding.

Because I got air pulled into the system when vacuum bleeding, I can't say how effective vacuum bleeding would have been on the clutch slave cylinder. But I can say, with pressure bleeding, because the clutch slave cylinder is after the clutch bleed valve (what you're calling a zerk), a clutch bleeding tool can't get the air out of the slave cylinder.

Whether using a pressure bleeder or using no bleeding tool at all, getting the air out of the slave cylinder requires pressing and holding the clutch pedal (pressurizing the system and the slave cylinder), opening the bleeder (zerk), allowing the slave cylinder to decompress and push air/fluid out of the bleeder, closing the bleeder, and releasing the pedal. Also note that due to the length and horizontal orientation of the line running through the tunnel to the slave cylinder, raising the rear of the car can help get air bubbles to and out of the bleeder.

I'm not sure your issue lies with bleeding, but figured I'd lay out some of my thoughts to see if that can jog any inspiration on your end for potential clutch hydraulic issues.


Back towards productivity, if you got the chance to drive it, did the trans shift well when it was still in the Cobalt?

 

[Sluggonaut]

I read through this thread but didn't see a definitive answer to a couple of questions:

Are you following the clutch bleed directions that Lonny has posted or are you stopping after you've pumped it and let it fall as you bleed like you do with the brakes? After bleeding from the MC, you have to bleed the slave cylinder. You should be pumping first and then holding it to the floor before you crack the bleed screw on the trans to let the slave cylinder push air out from its side. You will have to lift the clutch back up each time.

You mentioned it is a new master cylinder, did you bench bleed the new MC? I had a heck of a time getting my brakes/and clutch bled the very first time and bailed on the vacuum bleeder for the reasons mentioned above in this thread. I couldn't get mine to bleed and someone suggested bench bleeding the MC. Even though bench bleeding the MC fixed my issue with the brakes, I had to disconnect one of the lines at the MC, press the clutch pedal, and reconnect the line before I was able to bleed (post #459 from my build log, post #462 from my build log).

 

[Rauq]

For those of you who have bench (bleeded? bled), or who understand the necessity better than I do... would pressure bleeding work for a new master cylinder?

 

[comegetjoe]

For those of you who have bench (bleeded? bled), or who understand the necessity better than I do... would pressure bleeding work for a new master cylinder?

I used a new master, pulled vacuum to do almost all of the work and then used the two person pedal method to finish it off.

I would still think that you would need some sort of manual bleeding to make the pedal feel what it should.

 

[Sluggonaut]

For those of you who have bench (bleeded? bled), or who understand the necessity better than I do... would pressure bleeding work for a new master cylinder?

Prior to building my Goblin I would have said pressure bleeding does not require bench bleeding of a new MC. After seeing some of the strange things I did during my build I question whether the knowledge I had going in was knowledge or fairy tales. Bench bleeding removes the doubt that there's an air bubble hiding in the MC somewhere.

After it took both bench bleeding and disconnecting/reconnecting one line to remove the trapped air bubble that was causing my problem, I would try pressure bleeding first but if you have pedal feel issues or suspect there's still air in the line, I'd spend the $10 on the cheap bench bleed kit and try that. I didn't even think air could get trapped and just needed to be moved through the system, but my issue was solved by someone's suggestion to disconnect/reconnect the line after bench bleeding.

 

[Gtstorey]

I only pressure bled mine.

 

[ah.b.normal]

Your unit is F23 correct? That aluminum part only fits the F35.

 

[ah.b.normal]

Doc! Looking back at your pix your trans appears to be an F35? The F35 has the black inspection cover that the F23 does not have. If you think you have ruined the seal at the elbow connection you must but a new pipe and pull the seal off to get one. Replacing the little steel pipe requires trans R&R. I will send you some F23 pix to confirm your unit type.

 

[ToothMagician]

Doc! Looking back at your pix your trans appears to be an F35? The F35 has the black inspection cover that the F23 does not have. If you think you have ruined the seal at the elbow connection you must but a new pipe and pull the seal off to get one. Replacing the little steel pipe requires trans R&R. I will send you some F23 pix to confirm your unit type.

You are correct. It is in fact an F35.. wow... I feel dumb. Thanks, I think the little rubber seal is fine, at least it looks ok to me. I'm gonna try and lift the rear end, and pressure bleed it again. Pump it, Pedal to floor, open fitting, close fitting, release pedal, repeat. I'll update as soon. As I get it done

 

[Robinjo]

I pressure bleed mine in this sequence. I'm using the Motiv Pressure Bleeder for reference.

Passenger rear wheel
Driver rear wheel
Clutch
Passenger front wheel
Drivers front wheel

Then repeat the sequence again. If bubbles are still present after round 2, then repeat this sequence until good.

Last, do the final clutch. Pump the clutch three time and hold on the final pump. Open the clutch bleed port, close it and release the clutch pedal. I do this at least 3 times, maybe more if bubbles are coming out still.

 

[Markm]

From reading the earlier post about only grinding going into 2nd gear and the others seem fine I’d think you have a 2nd gear blocking ring/synchronizer issue.

 

[Ross]

My donor Cobalt came with a well worn F35, it wouldn't let me into 2nd gear if the engine was over 4K RPM. So that 2nd gear syncro was the first thing to wear out in the transmission. I bought a new F35, and Lonny put a Quaife differential in it.

ZZP says the F35 can break 2nd gear.

 

[ah.b.normal]

You are correct. It is in fact an F35.. wow... I feel dumb. Thanks, I think the little rubber seal is fine, at least it looks ok to me. I'm gonna try and lift the rear end, and pressure bleed it again. Pump it, Pedal to floor, open fitting, close fitting, release pedal, repeat. I'll update as soon. As I get it done

The little rubber seal has shown it self to be a PITA. Not only is it prone to staying in the aluminum elbow but replacement requires you buy a new pipe and rob the seal off of it! Not sold separately! Also I hope you also figured out the alu elbow is keyed and plugs in only in one position. Take the clip out and maybe the little rubber too, then install to find it’s clocked position. Also please disregard if I call any transmission T. Nomenclature can be a *****. F means Front wheel drive trans. So T35 from me meansF35, D’OH!

Here are some easy ID pix of F23 trans and stuff.