Communication

[Lonny]

I received the following message from BAR-AIR alerting me that there is a problem with communication between us and our customers.

Lonny,
I have no reason to get into a pissing match with you on the forum. But a lot of this is B.S.. My kit was from the very first batch of kits realistically before you were even a kit car manufacturer. Is it not true I was going to forfeit my original deposit due to the lack of parts to satisfy NYS DOT. But you and Adam were adamant that you would be able to produce the required equipment for me and all the proceeding kits that required them. Three years later... I luckily was able to produce my own but am still getting calls and emails from your other loyal builders (not so loyal off the forum - they are as down right unhappy as I was, but too afraid to say something on the forum and then not get their required parts).
Your first windshield was a fail it happens. Three years and you with a full machine shop have not even been able to copy a Lotus 7 style flat windshield to get the guy through inspection? The first emergency brake (note: that I sent you guys the Wilwood Spot brake because you could not afford them) was a partial success - but again the rear bracket nothing else. Bumpers you have all the tube bending equipment to bend an entire frame and you haven’t come up with two simple bumpers. I’m not going to continue but you get the idea.
So you are going to write this off as an unjustified attack against you and your company by some uptight New Yorker. And you would be wrong first I still actually like the car and the product and wish you success with it but your customers may not be as happy with you as you think. If you going to make promises people (customers) will demand them to be up held in a timely fashion.
Bruce

If you are in an area that requires safety glass windshields, parking brakes and bumpers please give me a call.
We have not gone through the registration requirements of each state, we leave that up to the kit builder.
Our customer satisfaction is very important to us so if you need something and can't get a response call my cell. 214-334-0232
Also know that we don't censor or forum from anything but spam so if you are unhappy with something put it out there, it can only help out product and communication improve.

Your feedback is our report card.

Lonny Doyle

 

[Nilbog]

Well, i'll be first to say i couldn't be happier with your product and service. Not everything in life goes perfectly and a kit car is a kit car, thats the intent of being able to customize. I went into my build knowing the risks of getting it licensed/registered and had a fallback plan (dont ask now ) if i was unable to make it street legal.

Keep it up Lonny/Adam!!

 

[ctuinstra]

I went into this project knowing first hand that this was kit, a kit to build and customize as I see fit. It's a well-refined foundation on which to build a car. I always wanted to build my own car but I do not possess the tools, engineering, experience, time, and money to do it from the ground up all by myself. That's where this kit fit the bill, it gave me most of what I could not do to get me started.

Before I put down the deposit, I read over just about everything on the website. I read many of the forums and I fully understood what I was getting in to. I did not know what challenges my state might give me getting my car on the road but figured I would address those when the time come. That was a risk I was willing to take, and after seeing what Texas has done, no one is safe from State or Federal bureaucracy; it's a chance we take. Obviously many of the states do not agree on how to treat and license these kit cars.

I do not know of these "promises", I see nothing on the website or forum of any promises to be able to provide any and all options necessary for each and every state in order to pass inspection. Maybe this was verbal/private, therefore I cannot speak of. I was never lead to believe or understood any promise of anything other than the delivery of parts to build the kit. Sure, there was the occasional mishap of missing items, but it was remedied quickly. I understood this can happen when you have a few humans running the show and as we all are human, we are known to make a mistake. There was no impression made upon me of a guarantee to pass inspection and all of the items would be produced to ensure so. Maybe it should be made more obvious so as others are not so quick to believe there is.

As far as communication, I have never had a problems with communication with DF. Any issues I have had have been remedied quickly. On top of everything, I have had to build two vehicles now. The second kit was almost only a few items from being 100% full Stage 1, 2, and 3! This was made even more difficult than your standard build because now I needed very specific items, a custom kit if you will, and it was filled without issue.

 

[Brian74]

I deal with numerous small to huge companies on a regular basis with my many car & boat projects. Not one of them I can say are as accomodating and a pleasure as Lonnie and Adam have been. Never once have they not answered the phone. Good luck even getting a hold of anyone else on a Sunday. Its hard to please everyone, but I have seen these guys bend over backwards for several people on numerous occasions.

Granted this product is still in its primacy and done very well it will take some time for builder demand to determine what additional pieces would even be worth mass-producing. For a kit car it is a very easy, inexpensive and basic kit in comparison to other kits.

My only request would be some sort of regular blog of progress / newest R&D because I always like hearing about the latest. For the new parts that come available later on, perhaps an additional parts catalog section on the website.

 

[G Atsma]

My only request would be some sort of regular blog of progress / newest R&D because I always like hearing about the latest. For the new parts that come available later on, perhaps an additional parts catalog section on the website.

These are good ideas! Just some way to know of progress on new parts/options.
Even show stuff in prototype stage so it can be commented on for potential improvement(s).

 

[ncgoblin]

I cannot speak for state inspections that are a bit more of a challenge like New York but what I can say is Lonny/Adam customer service has been excellent. I had a slight crack in the spoiler I received and they have reached out to the manufacturer. I have called them probably 10 times and they have always been willing to answer questions and give advice. I constantly brag about their customer support. The items I suggest other then the ones listed is easier navigation on the site, better organization on the site, and SS/SC, Turbo build videos. Even a mention in the current videos directing people to an updated link so you don’t have to re-record everything.

Fortunately the community helped in these areas but it’s still much more challenging to build the electrical for SC off NA Build videos.

I am realistic and know you all are working hard keeping the business running tip top. Overall I am very happy and do not regret at all this decision.

Thank goodness I live in N.C. where the inspection is easier.

 

[IDRVSLO]

Thanks for sharing the email and the transparency Lonny. Slept on it and wanted to type out a thoughtful response this morning.

I was on the fence between this kit and the Exocet when I was shopping. The Exocet has been around longer, easy to find donors and similar price points. What ultimately got me to choose this kit was the hands on approach that you and Adam take. The instructional videos(although not complete and not on my donor) were a huge help! Is everything perfect no, are you guys aware of that yes. I have only been around 4 months so I dont know the same struggles that some of the early guys had but lets be honest, we are all taking a leap of faith on a project like this. Nobody from DF guarantees that you can register the car. Every state is so different, some easy, some hard and hell like TX some are not even possible.

What grows a community is your involvement and the willingness of the customers to share experiences and solutions. I am passionate about the community and glad to be involved. I talk about the kit to anyone that will listen and will do so when its on the road.

So thanks for what you and Adam do.

Scott

 

[FTC]

I don't own a Goblin, but I did get to meet Lonny and Adam at their shop in Red Oak. They gave me a tour of their operation and we had some great conversations around my Exocet and the Goblin. Lonny and Adam have done a great job putting together videos/guides along with sourcing parts for the kit. Not sure how many of you have looked at the Exocet build guide, but just look at it:

http://exomotive.com/exocet/build-guide/

With the Exocet kit you get the frame, brackets, some bolts/rivets, and body panels and that's about it. You're pretty much on your own going forward. You have to fab/source all your seat brackets, belts, etc.. Exomotive doesn't really work with you on trying to get your car legal in your state, for the most part that's on you when you buy the kit. A very different experience than what you get with the Goblin.

You have a very solid community here. I've been lurking on this forum for 9 months now and I've seen Lonny and Adam answer questions and do a lot of customer support. You don't get a lot of that with the Exocet. Something else Lonny and Adam do is leverage this community to improve their product, I don't know when the last time Exomotive updated their kit. If I was to wait around for Exomotive to come up with solutions to my build and state requirements I don't think my car would have ever got completed, and for the record I didn't expect them to.

Buying and building a kit car you have to have the mindset that there are going to be problems you are going to have to resolve. You may or may not have support to solve the problem. Kit cars are challenging and that's part of the appeal.

Love looking at the builds. Keep up the good work.

 

[IDRVSLO]

I don't own a Goblin, but I did get to meet Lonny and Adam at their shop in Red Oak. They gave me a tour of their operation and we had some great conversations around my Exocet and the Goblin. Lonny and Adam have done a great job putting together videos/guides along with sourcing parts for the kit. Not sure how many of you have looked at the Exocet build guide, but just look at it:

http://exomotive.com/exocet/build-guide/

With the Exocet kit you get the frame, brackets, some bolts/rivets, and body panels and that's about it. You're pretty much on your own going forward. You have to fab/source all your seat brackets, belts, etc.. Exomotive doesn't really work with you on trying to get your car legal in your state, for the most part that's on you when you buy the kit. A very different experience than what you get with the Goblin.

You have a very solid community here. I've been lurking on this forum for 9 months now and I've seen Lonny and Adam answer questions and do a lot of customer support. You don't get a lot of that with the Exocet. Something else Lonny and Adam do is leverage this community to improve their product, I don't know when the last time Exomotive updated their kit. If I was to wait around for Exomotive to come up with solutions to my build and state requirements I don't think my car would have ever got completed, and for the record I didn't expect them to.

Buying and building a kit car you have to have the mindset that there are going to be problems you are going to have to resolve. You may or may not have support to solve the problem. Kit cars are challenging and that's part of the appeal.

Love looking at the builds. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the outsiders point of view. I hang out on the Exocet FB page for ideas and solutions!

 

[Karter2026]

So I have sat back and listened to this for a while now. I have some stuff to say.

I am one of the ones that will have to deal with the strict state inspection crap. I have been on this forum since June of 2017. I think I read every build log that was on here before I ordered the car on December 2, 2017. I knew full well or at least most of what I had to do to get the car inspected. (parking brakes, glass windshield, wipers, and some additional lighting) I am still crossing some of those hurdles. Like I said, I read a lot of the build logs. I knew of some issues with some parts being delayed for a while, so I ordered all 3 stages from the start, hoping to avoid the backordered problems. I ordered the frame, fenders, hood, engine cover, brackets for spot parking brake calipers, and the glass windshield kit that was announced in March of 2017. On the day I ordered, Adam was upfront and said they had not done much on the windshield and told me it would be a while. I was ok with that. My chassis was done in Febuaury, 2018. I was in no hurry to get it since a group of four of us made a deal on getting them picked up. Not without the help of Adam and Lonny. One of the original four had to back out of his kit. Adam had a customer from Maryland (BaltimoreHokie) get a hold of the guy (KJP) who did the pickup and me, so we could see if we could make this work. We did! It worked out great for all of us. BaltimoreHokie got to get the kit that was backed out of. None of it would have been possible without the guys at DF.

There were some backordered parts any ways. They were shipped a few weeks later. Adam also told me the windshield was going to be a while. So I started to look at other options for the windshield. I did end up taking a ride up to New York to take a look at what Bar-Air did with his. I took some measurements and ended up making a frame close to what he did. Bar-Air and I had a conversation about his issues. I also understood he was one of the early kits, and that did not help things. He also gave me some pointers to do before I painted and powder coated. I was a little upset at the time about the windshield being not readily available like I had hoped it would be. But that was the only real issue I had at that point. I am much happier with what I ended up doing for my windshield frame in the long run, over what they had pictured on the forum. It was just one of the hurdles to jump over.

After a lot of work I had the car on the ground and rolling. But I couldn’t drive the car because the parking brake caliper kit was not available yet. Every email was met with “they are a week or two out” I had other work to do so I kept going. I also got a little madder every Saturday when my buddy would ask. Did you get your brakes yet? This went on for more than a month. I was finally done with the emails. I made a phone call, Lonny answered, he told me he was sorry for the delay and that they were ready to ship out the next day. They were shipped that next day.

During that wait for the brake parts. The Motor head garage show and the Goonie thing on YouTube came out. I thought to myself how can you push to get new customers? When you can’t keep the current ones supported! I cooled down a little and realized more money coming in helps with the R&D and that helps all of us in the long run. These guys have to be struggling to keep up with all of us calling, emailing and wanting our parts yesterday. As the BaltimoreHokie said to me, “I’m sure everyone would like instant replies and shipping including us. But they are a small operation and we have to manage our expectations.” I do not know of any other company that I could text on a Saturday evening about brake pads and get a response shortly thereafter. Overall I am excited to get this finished and am glad I chose this over the other things I was looking at building or restoring. I’m definitely not disappointed in these guys or their support at all.

 

[Jonathan O'Hara]

I'm really happy with my Goblin experience. Maybe I'm biased because I'm lucky enough to have mine on the road.

I think buyers need to go in with reasonable expectations, which in my case were exceeded.

DF Kit Car is a small (but mighty!) operation. They have a great product. There are many things about the Goblin that are really cleverly designed to simplify the build process and maximize reliance on stock Cobalt parts. To me, the product itself is worth the money. If I walked into a good automotive fabricator and said that I wanted them to help me build a mid-engine frame from scratch it would cost me a fortune. The big car companies spend very large fortunes designing car. By contrast, the Goblin is pretty affordable.

I consider the support from Lonny and Adam a nice bonus (except for the build videos, I wouldn't have bought the Goblin without them). I was more banking on fellow enthusiasts (mostly on this forum), being my main source of support. Both have been great.

I think the DF guys are working their butts off on this labor of love. I doubt they are making a killing off these kits. We are lucky they are working so hard for the money we pay. Eventually I hope they can relax as the sales volumes take off and their product matures (fingers crossed).

Sure I wish that I could get whatever parts I needed overnight. Getting into this I knew DF Kit Car wasn't a subsidiary of GM or VW, with 10 dealers in the city and all kind of parts warehouses. So I planned ahead some, had some more patience, and improvised.

Maybe sometimes I even wish I had someone to hold my hand though every little silly question I didn't have the time or energy to figure out, but that would diminish the pride I take in the finished (well, mostly) product. There's some stuff I had to figure out, and some stuff I'm still figuring out. If I wanted a turnkey vehicle and didn't WANT to have to figure stuff out, I would not have bought a kit, I'd have bought a finished car.

Thanks to the DF guys, I bought a beat up donor car in Oct '17, received a steel frame and a bunch of parts in Mar '18 and built something that I'm legally allowed to drive on the road (which still boggles my mind a little) by Aug '18.

There's no way in hell I'd be able to do this business anywhere near as well as these guys. I'd have a way crappier product and have terrible support because I was working on figuring so many things. They've done, and continue to do, great stuff. Because of them, I'm very happy with and grateful for my Goblin project - money and time **** well spent.