V1 Joe's 2009 F40 SS/TC #470

[Gtstorey]

Is it just threading into the carbon fiber or does it have metal inserts embedded?

If the carbon in thick enough, you might have luck with rivnuts. I've even used rivnuts with epoxy one or twice to add a little extra strength.

But if the wing doesn't have any way of accessing the inside to add a washer and nut, I would probably try some sort of toggle anchor.

 

[comegetjoe]

Is it just threading into the carbon fiber or does it have metal inserts embedded?

If the carbon in thick enough, you might have luck with rivnuts. I've even used rivnuts with epoxy one or twice to add a little extra strength.

But if the wing doesn't have any way of accessing the inside to add a washer and nut, I would probably try some sort of toggle anchor.

No metal inserts. It appears to be just threaded into the carbon/resin and the hole bottoms out about half an inch in.

 

[Gtstorey]

So, 1/2 inch of something like a 3/8 bolt in carbon is all that is holding it? Be ready for the other side to fail. I'm surprised you haven't lost the entire thing. I assume this is some version of an eBay/Amazon wing?

 

[comegetjoe]

So, 1/2 inch of something like a 3/8 bolt in carbon is all that is holding it? Be ready for the other side to fail. I'm surprised you haven't lost the entire thing. I assume this is some version of an eBay/Amazon wing?

1/2 of what appears to have been an M6 sized bolt. I plan on repairing* all 4 when I do it and no Ebay, it is a Seibon wing. I didnt put the bolts in, they came with the brackets pre-installed from the factory. I never removed or adjusted them.

 

[Gtstorey]

I would barely trust 4x M6 bolts threaded into steel to hold something like that on. Threaded into carbon is just wrong.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Send Siebon or whoever sold you the wing the pics to ask about a warranty claim first. If that gets nowhere, then install 3/8 or M10 bolts (at a minimum) into rivnuts that have epoxy bonding added...gir-r-dun!

 

[jirwin]

FWIW I did rivnuts+epoxy and it's held multiple 100mph drag passes. This is with a cheapo eBay 70" wing

 

[Gtstorey]

Looking on-line, you might be able to add a threaded insert although I would still probably use epoxy to help lock it in. It might be better than rivnuts. With rivnuts, you will have to be careful with getting the squeeze just right. You could also add more holes & fasteners, no matter which way you try.

 

[Ross]

Well if you epoxy in a rivnut, it should work.
Lots of epoxies have "creep", and won't hold a static load for long... you want the epoxy that doesn't creep, like they use in anchor bolts.

 

[comegetjoe]

You have to elaborate on "creep" in this situation. I spent a pretty penny on this wing and don't want to blow unfixable holes in it if the epoxy expands and cracks the carbon.

Also, I pulled the wing for now, Im still going to drive it to work. Its too nice not to this week. High 70°s and sunny. That last remaining bolt that was holding everything from falling apart on my way home today was IN THERE. I had to crack it loose.

 

[Gtstorey]

You can do a quick internet search for epoxy creep. I didn’t know that was a thing, but I don’t know that it would apply here. It has a continuous load time component to it happening and I don’t know that applies here. Most of the load would be carried by the mechanical fasteners and the epoxy would just be a little extra. With rivnuts, I would use the epoxy to help keep them spinning, more than pull out.

 

[Ross]

Epoxy creep is when it slowly stretches when under a constant load. Usually takes days or months to creep. If the carbon fibers are taking the constant load, then it is easy for epoxy to hold the insert from a dynamic load, like a bolt rotating inside the insert.

 

[comegetjoe]

Any epoxies you guys recommend besides the obvious two-part beloved one that everyone knows?

 

[Gtstorey]

I use T88 since it has a high strength and you can buy it in larger quantities with a long shelf life. But it turns out it can be susceptible to creep, although I haven’t had a problem with that I can identify.

JB Weld in the slow set version claims good creep properties compared to other consumer epoxies. But you also have to look at the strength properties to get a real comparison since creep also has a percentage of yield as a component. Epoxy is one of those that seems simple but is actually really complicated.

 

[comegetjoe]

Revision F - It came last night.
I gave it a write this afternoon after driving the car home from work, day 3 driving it to work in a row. Boost went from 15psi to 20psi and you better believe me when I type this out that its a different animal at 20psi. I have maybe 10miles on it so far... just wow so far. It pulls sooo, sooo hard in 3rd gear.
Its supposed to rain heavily here most of the weekend, so no cool looking data logging sessions with a laptop on the highway, but its coming.

 

[Rttoys]

Mine was defaulted to 7psi because of the boost valve thingy was bad. The car was so so on power. When I replaced the valve……..woooohhhh buddy. We have power.

 

[David]

Revision F - It came last night.
I gave it a write this afternoon after driving the car home from work, day 3 driving it to work in a row. Boost went from 15psi to 20psi and you better believe me when I type this out that its a different animal at 20psi. I have maybe 10miles on it so far... just wow so far. It pulls sooo, sooo hard in 3rd gear.
Its supposed to rain heavily here most of the weekend, so no cool looking data logging sessions with a laptop on the highway, but its coming.

Wow your going to male me go to ZZP and see what they can finish mine up. Would love to go to a dyno and get some numbers.

 

[comegetjoe]

Id like to hit up a dyno day around here and see what it makes as well, but I dont know of any that are happening anytime soon.

 

[comegetjoe]

Wide fenders should be arriving soon. Part of obtaining something greater.
Ordered the button panel wires. Along with the wires, Adam helped me out with some hardware. Ive got my 3d printed button panel ready and all of the illuminated buttons are ready to go.

Any tips on the wiring up the buttons? Diagrams? Or are the wires ordered supposed to be color coded?

Going to log revision F this weekend sometime.

 

[Rauq]

Does this help?

Button Panel

Does anyone have the wiring diagram for the button panel surround

dfkitcar.com