Remote tuning

[KSLunsfo]

Was your tuning a remote tune? I couldn't be happier with the dyno tune I got from ZZP. Al @ZZP spent alot of time tuning in WOT and overall drivability...

Another good point, it has to be REALLY tough to get good driveability via remote tuning. Don't think you can get much on driveability remotely unless the car is strapped to a local dyno while the tuner (ZZP in this case) can monitor and adjust real time remotely. Though that might get pricey utilizing 2 tuning sources at once...

 

[baustin]

It will be interesting to see your current tune. We have the same wideband, I leave mine in lambda setting. 0.8 is running rich, 1.1 is lean.
Have you ordered or do you have MPVI 2? HP Tuners is still claiming they will enable Pro features, but it has been years, so I don't hold your breath, and I don't recommend you buy it. If it worked, then it might be worth the extra $$$.

I probably should pay attention to this thread though I'm still very early in learning this stuff, eventually I might have info to contribute. I also have an 06 LSJ, just installed the ZZP stage 2 kit with a 2.9" pulley, adjustable tensioner, 60lb injectors, and have what seems to me to be a decent tuning experience so far. I also have a AEM 30-0300 to install soon but currently only have a recently replaced upstream O2 sensor installed. I have the MPVI2 and ordered the Pro features, connector arrived the other week and my account shows that 'pro' is activated. I haven't had the chance to confirm it'll log but I normally use the bluetooth connection to my laptop while logging data and the pro feature will keep this true whereas a serial connection direct to laptop wouldn't. It's a more expensive route than the parts you linked but it does seem to be a clean install.

I purchased the pro feature set and my MPVI2 through ZZP, here's what I see on my HPtuners account page:

I'm going to add an inline disconnect for the pro connector from the AEM AFR gauge so when I have the MPVI2 plugged in to OBD port I can also connect the AEM gauge to the MPVI2 but when not using MPVI2 I have less wiring hanging around. Hopefully that makes sense, it's a bunch of letters that makes sense in my head but might just be alphabet soup on a screen.

 

[Karter2026]

It will be interesting to see your current tune. We have the same wideband, I leave mine in lambda setting. 0.8 is running rich, 1.1 is lean.
Have you ordered or do you have MPVI 2? HP Tuners is still claiming they will enable Pro features, but it has been years, so I don't hold your breath, and I don't recommend you buy it. If it worked, then it might be worth the extra $$$.

I have the MVPI 2. I will post a datalog later and my current tune.

Was your tuning a remote tune? I couldn't be happier with the dyno tune I got from ZZP. Al @ZZP spent alot of time tuning in WOT and overall drivability...

It was a remote tune with 2 or 3 datalogs sent back before the next revision. I asked if there was any specfic driving style he wanted to see in the log. I got no response other than the updated tune. I was hoping that Al would be doing my tune but I got Matt. ZZP is about 8 hrs away form me that is why I went with the remote.

 

[ctuinstra]

It will be interesting to see some of these other tunes from ZZP and data logs. By the way, we can do remote tuning using TeamViewer or GoToMeeting or any other software.

 

[ctuinstra]

I probably should pay attention to this thread though I'm still very early in learning this stuff, eventually I might have info to contribute. I also have an 06 LSJ, just installed the ZZP stage 2 kit with a 2.9" pulley, adjustable tensioner, 60lb injectors, and have what seems to me to be a decent tuning experience so far. I also have a AEM 30-0300 to install soon but currently only have a recently replaced upstream O2 sensor installed.

Your set up is pretty much identical to mine and Ross's. Just ours is an '07. I really wish there was a 45 or 50lb injector out there. I personally think the 60lbs are too big for this build. The highest duty cycle I have hit is 45%. 80% is the ceiling. So basically I'm just using half of the injectors total output ability. Just makes for tuning down low at idle more difficult to get a good idle.

 

[Karter2026]

Ok here are my last 2 log files from after the 5th tune. I know I have some high IAT's working on that. And the final tune

 

[Karter2026]

Yo I really wish there was a 45 or 50lb injector out there. I personally think the 60lbs are too big for this build. The highest duty cycle I have hit is 45%. 80% is the ceiling. So basically I'm just using half of the injectors total output ability. Just makes for tuning down low at idle more difficult to get a good idle.

I am thinking I should of used the stock 42 lb LSJ injectors.

 

[ctuinstra]

So many thoughts and questions on your log files. Not saying there is anything bad, just interesting. First, you have way more PIDs that I do and a lot of information I'm not sure that I can add to mine and I wish I could. The boost solenoid for one, I have been wanting to monitor that. Moving on...

1. Engine oil temp -40? Must not be able to read that.
2. Intake Air Temp 2 32 degrees F???? I wish we could actually get that.
   1. Maybe Intake Air Temp (SAE) is your IAT2??? If so, that's not bad at all from the quick glance. 90 degrees under boost at 66 ambient.
3. Power Enrichment PID - I should add that to my log. That's interesting.
4. I don't have a fuel pressure PID either, but I have a gauge.
5. The injector flow rates never seem to go about 36lb/hr, that's just probably straight from your injector table. 42lb/hr would not be enough to stay within below the 80% duty cycle. So 60 is probably your best bet. I just noticed you have a max of 59% injector duty on the hard pull, that's really good. Stay with 60! I know why mine is lower, the boost reference fuel pressure, I have higher fuel pressure under boost and therefor the injectors don't have to work as hard. It's all coming together now.
6. Not seeing any knock retard, so that's good. Probably some room for more timing in the future.
7. But the elephant in the room is the high LTFT in the low MAP area. I would have assumed that would be the DFCO cutting fuel, but the commanded AFR should reflect that one would think. Either way, the ECM is adding a heck of a lot of fuel down low even if the DFCO is trying to cut it.???

Let's see your tune file. I'd be interested in seeing your VE table.

 

[Karter2026]

Ther some things that this ECM can not read since it came from a non boosted car

1. Intake Air Temp 2 32 degrees F???? I wish we could actually get that. Yes no actual IAT2 on this one. My temp is cut out of the MAF and wired into the TMAP on the upper left of the manifold
2. Maybe Intake Air Temp (SAE) is your IAT2??? If so, that's not bad at all from the quick glance. 90 degrees under boost at 66 ambient. It will run up to about 125 degrees
3. But the elephant in the room is the high LTFT in the low MAP area. I would have assumed that would be the DFCO cutting fuel, but the commanded AFR should reflect that one would think. Either way, the ECM is adding a heck of a lot of fuel down low even if the DFCO is trying to cut it.??? That could be the idle surging isue

Let's see your tune file. I'd be interested in seeing your VE table. Tune was the first file attached Thomas Goblin 09 file

I can email the PIDS that they asked me to log they will not load here

 

[Ross]

The fuel trims kind of speak volumes. Definitely could benefit from some tuning.

 

[ctuinstra]

Let's see your tune file. I'd be interested in seeing your VE table. Tune was the first file attached Thomas Goblin 09 file

I'm an idiot! Didn't even look at that.

 

[Karter2026]

I'm an idiot! Didn't even look at that.

It happens. I emailed the pid files to you sent it to the email I had from a while back. Mm**********@****

 

[ctuinstra]

I was afraid that you were using a VVE (virtual Volumetric Efficiency) table. We don't have to mess with them on the earlier models. In theory they shouldn't be that difficult, but I don't have the experience with them. However looking at it, it does dive off pretty hard in the low MAP area and could stand to be increased to help with the lean conditions there.

Most of that area is just chopping the throttle shut. I've had the same issue. However with my tune it seemed a lot better after the MAF tuning was complete. I'll bet you could really stand to do a tuning on the MAF. If your MAF is detecting less air, then it won't add the proper amount of fuel and run lean. Then the LTFT and STFT kick in and try to correct it. MAF tuning is very easy compared to the VE tuning.

 

[Ross]

I was searching HP Tuners Repository, hoping to find something close to your engine. This one is a year earlier, the bigger 2.4 engine, but it does have a supercharger on it:

2008 Chevrolet Cobalt
Engine: 2.4 L4 - Automatic
Submitted By: HGT
M62 Supercharged
2.8" Pulley
60lb injectors
3" CAI

I am guessing you don't have direct injection, so the LNF tunes won't be that close to your engine.
Do you have the Seimens Deka 60 pound injectors?

 

[Karter2026]

Do you have the Seimens Deka 60 pound injectors?

Yes These are my injectors

 

[Ross]

Today I was checking everything, and studying up on putting in my 82 lbs injectors.
Did some cleaning up my VCM Scanner graph data, and starting paying attention to my injector duty cycle. Seems that the stock bright green injectors (33 lbs) are running at 98% duty cycle... no wonder they increased them to 42 lbs in later years.

If I hit the rev limiter, then the requested duty cycle can jump up to 156.3% !!!
Data gets a little interesting at that point. AFR (air fuel rate) of 6.81 Lambda (no fuel in the exhaust)

 

[ctuinstra]

HOLY BURNED PISTONS BATMAN! You've run out of injectors for sure. That pretty dangerous. Also how the heck are you getting 100% throttle? We only get in the middle to upper 80s. Now I want to get that sorted, may be part of our idle throttle issue.

It also seems like your rev limiter is set to 6300. Interesting, ours is 6500 I believe. May have even changed it to 7000.

 

[Ross]

The throttle is one of my "user defined math parameters". The raw data was 0-255, so I did the math to turn it into a percentage. My rev limiter is engaging at 6400 RPM. I bet it was that low because it ran out of injector. I was tempted to raise it up, but glad I didn't with the stock injectors!

When I install the new injectors, is there a mark to tell me which way to clock them? Do I need a shim kit to get them clocked correctly? I need to learn how to install injectors correctly.

Also it would be nice if I could find a tune with Bosch EV-14ES injector data, as all I know is there max flow rate. The P12 PCM is limited to 62.5 lb/hr in the injector flow rate table, so I see other tunes use the "Flow rate multiplier vs Volts" table to multiply the whole table by 1.56x. There is a whole bunch of injector data that I need to set.

 

[ctuinstra]

The throttle is one of my "user defined math parameters". The raw data was 0-255, so I did the math to turn it into a percentage. My rev limiter is engaging at 6400 RPM. I bet it was that low because it ran out of injector. I was tempted to raise it up, but glad I didn't with the stock injectors!

That makes sense. I'm logging both the actual pedal position and the throttle position.

When I install the new injectors, is there a mark to tell me which way to clock them? Do I need a shim kit to get them clocked correctly? I need to learn how to install injectors correctly.

The connector basically tells you which way they are facing. Keep the connector as perpendicular with the engine as possible. You can see the split pattern on the end of the injector. Install them just like you would a normal injector, but just keep they perpendicular as there is nothing to lock them into that position. Once they are installed, the o-ring pretty much holds them in place.

Also it would be nice if I could find a tune with Bosch EV-14ES injector data, as all I know is there max flow rate. The P12 PCM is limited to 62.5 lb/hr in the injector flow rate table, so I see other tunes use the "Flow rate multiplier vs Volts" table to multiply the whole table by 1.56x. There is a whole bunch of injector data that I need to set.

I thought the same thing and was trying to wrap my head around it all. Which way is the correct way and everyone was arguing about it, I never knew for sure. When I talked to my tuner, he acted like you don't need to do any of that junk, just tune the VE table. Since I'm using the boost referenced fuel pressure system, my fuel delivery over the entire MAP range is pretty much the same value since the fuel pressure compensates for the changes in MAP. So I just entered 62.5 lb/hr over the whole range of Flow Rate vs KPA. I left all of the modifiers alone other than the Min PW and Short Pulse. But I'm using 60 lb/hr injectors so technically is correct. But what was really throwing me is the rating of the injectors, is that 60 lb/hr at 3 bar or 4 bar fuel pressure???? I assumed they are rated at 3 bar but our fuel pressure is at 4 bar, so is a 60 lb/hr actually delivering say 72 lb/hr? If that's the case, will your 80 lb/hr be delivering 95 lb/hr at 4 bar? I tried emailing the guy at Injector Connections where I got them but I could quickly tell he was a dumb ass and knew nothing about it and didn't want to be bothered with tuning questions.

 

[ctuinstra]

Why is your stoich ARF set to 10.4? Do you want it to run that rich all the time?