To Buy a Donor, or Not to Buy a Donor?

[ATMironov]

Hey Everyone,
So I'm in the research phase of the goblin build with a plan to order a kit and build it next winter.
The car will be a dedicated track car and I would like to use as many new parts as possible.
I run an Track Day/Race event company in Northern California and am at the track 2-4 times a month.
I haven't been able to convince myself one way or the other yet if I should buy a donor or not.
The plan will be to buy a new LNF or LDK long block from ZZP or someone else, and a new/rebuilt F35 w/ LSD (Maybe from Performance Autowerks).
Also, any consumable items (bearings, tie rods, master cylinder etc) I will buy new.
So with all that in mind, I know there are still parts I'll need used, the most complicated of which I think will be the wiring harness. I'm not sure of the reality of pulling a complete harness from the junkyard or finding someone selling one.

I have a healthy budget for the build ($35k ish), but don't want to needlessly spend money and time on a donor.

I think this is all the items I will need used:
All Wiring
Body Control Module
Horn
Subframe
Front Knuckles
Coolant Take
Brake Fluid Reservoir
Brake Booster
Shifter
Steering Column
Ignition Switch
Pedal Box
Turn Signal Switch
Fuel Filler Neck
Brake Line Clips

So I guess I'm looking for input on if it's a bad idea to not buy a donor, and what suggestions anyone would have for finding a wiring harness?
Also, if I could just find an engine wiring harness from a LNF, could the rest of the harness be from any Cobalt or should all the wiring come from the same car?

Thanks!

 

[Rttoys]

If you can find a doner for the right price (under $2k?), it would be well worth it due to all little pieces you need or can use. Some of the little things will nickel and dime you to death.

simple things like the fuse boxes, bcm, ecm, shifter, motor mounts, alternator, pulleys, cluster, on amd on, plus nuts and bolts and such. i kept my doner around until I was finished just to scavenge things off of as I needed that were not on the list.

 

[Brian74]

I sort of went that route, as I bought an incomplete supercharged donor but ended up getting a turbocharged long block. A lot of the parts are readily available and I have sourced several from the jy.

As you know, the SS specific electrical parts are going to be more challenging.

The engine harness is $280 new through GM. The body harness is where you’re going to have a hard time.

The body harnesses are not compatible, mainly because each model uses a different ECM. The fuse boxes and BCM’s have minor differences as well.

I took my supercharged harness and converted it into a turbo harness, but was a ton of work and a full repin of the ECM connector. I don’t think the E69 ECM connectors are even available anymore. I boight a matching ECM/BCM from the same car through LDK.

If you can find someone parting a turbo SS, I would pay them to remove all of the electrical parts from the car and sell it all together. That would be the easiest alternative to getting a donor.

 

[Goblin Graber]

It’s definitely a possibility to get a harness. Someone on Facebook a couple days ago was parting out his 09 SS cuz he grenaded the motor. Looking for a late model SS with a bad drivetrain might be your cheapest way to get all you need.

If nothing else keep your eye out for that two or three hundred dollar base cobalt that pops up that’s blown up. That’ll get you most of what you need besides the electrical.

 

[pisco]

if you are replacing everything you may be able to recoup most of your money parting out your donor
I would bet cheaper to buy a car and take what you need sell the rest than pay junkyard prices for those few items
I got 50% back and have a pile of parts left to sell
I'm also keeping my engine trans etc..

 

[Peregrinus]

You will absolutely make money back parting out the leftovers from a donor to almost break even on your donor. Esp if u get a decent shape one, mine was t-boned and I still broken even parting out the left overs.

 

[comegetjoe]

People on the forums will have a lot of parts if you know where to look.

 

[Tinkles]

As I said on Facebook, I didn't buy a donor and regret it. You will spend more money on silly things like the nuts to hold the wheel hubs to the knuckles and get annoyed more with the project because you have to track down silly little items that you shouldn't have to. Because of that I have gone alot more "racecar" on my build than I intended and has drastically increased my overall cost to build it.

 

[Waterdriver]

Or look to purchase a built Goblin and modify it to suit your needs. You would be time and money ahead.

 

[Brian74]

Are you dead set on running an LDK/LNF?

Only reason I ask is because it seems like a built LSJ or even 2007 or older forged LE5 running a turbo would be a very solid option for a race car. Much easier to tune if you stick with the Delphi ECM vs the Bosch, lots of tuning info out there for them, VATS can be disabled and there seem to be more LSJ/LE5 donors and much cheaper than LNF donors. No worry about intake valve carbonization that comes with GDI either.

The only real disadvantage to the LSJ is not having the VVT thus not quite as much low end torque off boost. You would get VVT with the LE5, though (although you would need to run the Getrag transmission)

I went the crate LDK route, but in hindsight would have been the only thing I would have done differently just for the simplicity. The additional cost and time I have into sourcing the additional parts would have easily rebuilt my LSJ and paid for a turbo.

 

[ATMironov]

Are you dead set on running an LDK/LNF?

Only reason I ask is because it seems like a built LSJ or even 2007 or older forged LE5 running a turbo would be a very solid option for a race car. Much easier to tune if you stick with the Delphi ECM vs the Bosch, lots of tuning info out there for them, VATS can be disabled and there seem to be more LSJ/LE5 donors and much cheaper than LNF donors. No worry about intake valve carbonization that comes with GDI either.

The only real disadvantage to the LSJ is not having the VVT thus not quite as much low end torque off boost. You would get VVT with the LE5, though (although you would need to run the Getrag transmission)

I went the crate LDK route, but in hindsight would have been the only thing I would have done differently just for the simplicity. The additional cost and time I have into sourcing the additional parts would have easily rebuilt my LSJ and paid for a turbo.

I'm not dead set on and LDK/LNF, but I am pretty frim on being able to use a new motor. LDK/LNFs are available four 2 to 2.5 k. I haven't seen that for the LSJ. But I would agree that running an LSJ would simplify things quite a bit. I also REALLY like the idea of using a completely stock set up to minimize the headaches of tuning and added reliability.

 

[Ross]

The main advantage of an LSJ is the ability to modify it. If you want the reliability of stock, an LDK.LNF have that and more power than a stock LSJ. They are available new or low miles, which is rare with an LSJ, as they are older, and getting up there in miles.

 

[r3drckt]

Why not buy an LSJ and do a rebuild/ have a shop do a rebuild? New timing chain, main bearings, rod bearings, gaskets, etc. would run you ~$1-1.5k, maybe $2k if you have a shop do it or including new pistons/rods in the build.

 

[ctuinstra]

Well, you've pretty much received just about every piece of advice and opinion. Personally, I would see if you can find a donor, it helps to have all of the items.

 

[Brian74]

I certainly agree with the notion of either a crate or rebuild in the budget. This was marketed as a poor man’s hot rod. Many of the wannabe Vin Diesel kids that previously own these cars beat the **** out of them and know all about mods & tuning and very little about maintenance. There is no telling how many times the engine was run low on oil or how much crap was sucked through a poorly maintained gauze air filter.

 

[ctuinstra]

I certainly agree with the notion of either a crate or rebuild in the budget. This was marketed as a poor man’s hot rod. Many of the wannabe Vin Diesel kids that previously own these cars beat the **** out of them and know all about mods & tuning and very little about maintenance. There is no telling how many times the engine was run low on oil or how much crap was sucked through a poorly maintained gauze air filter.

True dat. 'Ol Vin got his grubby hands on our donor. It had a nightmare of a tune on it (thanks to ZZP). Also I thought I was the only one that hated the idea of a K&N filter on a DD. I don't have an issue with it on this car, it usually don't cruise gravel roads with it.

 

[Brian74]

True dat. 'Ol Vin got his grubby hands on our donor. It had a nightmare of a tune on it (thanks to ZZP). Also I thought I was the only one that hated the idea of a K&N filter on a DD. I don't have an issue with it on this car, it usually don't cruise gravel roads with it.

I used to rebuild engines for a living. I never heard seen or heard anything good about gauze filters. I plan to daily drive my Goblin and unfortunately I’m gonna be stuck running a dry gauze due to size/design constraints that I have no control over.

I run a full centrifugal airbox and paper filter on my dirt car. The previous owner had already done enough damage running a gauze on it.

 

[ATMironov]

Thank you everyone for the input! As these things go I got every answer possible and a bunch of great suggestions.
Its given me much more to think about and work into the planning.

One quest that wasn't specifically answered is, if I bought and LNF engine harness, could I pick up any NON-LNF donor and use the main and dash harness from that? As far as I can tell I think the rest of the parts would work except for maybe the knuckles.

 

[Ark :D]

The ECM connector/wiring are different between a body harness from a turbo SS and other models. There are other differences too, like the turbo SS having a yaw sensor, that probably don't matter.

If wiring doesn't scare you, have at it.

 

[Lonny]

A turbo harness is quite a bit different from an SS/SC and also different from a base harness.

They all have different ECM connectors and you will likely have trouble getting the turbo ECM to communicate with the BCM.

I would absolutely advise buying a complete donor that matches the build that you are wanting.