V1 LaunchPad's technology demonstrator -08 SS/TC donor- #109 registered

[Sebnuts]

that kit looks pretty affordable. well compared to the OTTP guys. i suspect though it is too soft for a rear powerplant?

Softer than Delrin for sure, but harder than an OEM bushing, which plenty of people are running.

Something to consider before you go Delrin: The DF supplied, fixed upper strut mount is already a not so great feature. The strut needs to be able to pivot about that top mount. It can't, so instead, deflection occurs elsewhere, like bending in the shaft of the strut and deflection in the control arm bushings. If you increase the bushing stiffness, the strut shaft will have to take even more bending load. The top of the strut shaft is turned down, decreasing it's resistance to fatigue. This is a recipe for disaster, and is likely to make strut failures like @Ross had more common.

 

[LaunchPad]

Flowers, an 'I love you more than you can imagine' card, a random back rub, and an afternoon for her shopping - with you as the patient chauffeur and thoughtful reply when the 'do you like this on me' questions are asked! That and a pretty please may do the trick!

Lolz. . . yes- sounds like you too cracked the code but also in my case putting up with the long flights with cramped seats for my 6'3" self to Caribbean islands and a week out of the shop too. I hate leaving my shop but we've only been married 3 years and a few days so I would like to keep her as happy as possible! though at the same time I am blessed in that I don't pay for those trips or even plan them just show up and not be agitated about projects slipping. lol.

I am so OCD about shop time we still haven't gotten into one house yet and the houses are 45 minutes apart. Mostly, because she didn't want to move the teen daughter before graduation. . . but it does give me an uphill battle in the meanwhile to keep her fully content.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

41 years and counting with my love and best friend. I think I've learned a couple things over the years and what works most of the time.

 

[LaunchPad]

Softer than Delrin for sure, but harder than an OEM bushing, which plenty of people are running.

Something to consider before you go Delrin: The DF supplied, fixed upper strut mount is already a not so great feature. The strut needs to be able to pivot about that top mount. It can't, so instead, deflection occurs elsewhere, like bending in the shaft of the strut and deflection in the control arm bushings. If you increase the bushing stiffness, the strut shaft will have to take even more bending load. The top of the strut shaft is turned down, decreasing it's resistance to fatigue. This is a recipe for disaster, and is likely to make strut failures like @Ross had more common.

isn't' Ross racing his pretty hard? i try to read as much as possible on the forum to learn but it is pretty vast and still tying to keep names and projects straight in my head

That is well worth the time to look into. i learn best seeing the issue and not quite to the even flipping our goblin right side up. is there a particular direction to the preferred pivot? I am imagining 90degrees to the outboard of the car in a vertical plane? so not something that a castor plate would help with? buckling on side load is one of the main draw backs to McPherson- in the goblin case it no longer steers so doubling down on the telescoping strut- like off road shocks if you can imagine might be a way forward but it will add weight too.

wife allowing time on the computer this weekend I am trying to juggle some finances to order the shifter and the coil over bits (at least to look at first hand) for the goblin and a radiator for the Bugatti. Supply lead times can be a killer for overall project timelines but my military retirement also sets a speed limit.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

The strut top mount plates - that bolt onto the frame mount plates - are angled upward about 2-3 degrees to aim the perpendicular line through the center of the strut to the mount with the hub upright. This slight angle accommodates the outboard point for the upright/strut intersection, but as @Sebnuts states the lateral deflection of the suspension in hard turns does angle the centerline of strut and causes a bending moment. Russ' broken strut is the end result. There are some other hardcore xcrossers who need to be looking for this issue too.

 

[Sebnuts]

is there a particular direction to the preferred pivot? I am imagining 90degrees to the outboard of the car in a vertical plane?

It's going to be some combination of inboard/outboard and front to back. Most OEMs use a poly bushing up there. Aftermarket stuff will often have a spherical/uniball bearing. I made a new upper mount and spacers to use a spherical bearing.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

BTW, since you have access to a CNC mill, I have a pair of the upper strut mount aluminum plates that I will not be using in my build. If you would like to try to create a bearing mount for the top of the strut - and not consume your plates - I could part with them.

 

[Sebnuts]

BTW, since you have access to a CNC mill, I have a pair of the upper strut mount aluminum plates that I will not be using in my build. If you would like to try to create a bearing mount for the top of the strut - and not consume your plates - I could part with them.

I have a set as well. This guys made something work, but details are a little hard to follow.

 

[Ross]

I like to test goblin parts. Here is the post about breaking the top of the shock.

 

[LaunchPad]

BTW, since you have access to a CNC mill, I have a pair of the upper strut mount aluminum plates that I will not be using in my build. If you would like to try to create a bearing mount for the top of the strut - and not consume your plates - I could part with them.

i will keep that in mind! but it sounds like Sebnuts already has something of a fix for the top mount. how good is it working out and is it practically reproducible? then would he license it to Goblin if they want to run with it? after all this is THEIR house and all. I am happy to help the community and all but don't want to offend the hosts!

Dang that goblin fest must have been quite the event for learning how and why folks did the various tweaks!

 

[LaunchPad]

I have a set as well. This guys made something work, but details are a little hard to follow.

ahh haaa! i have a few ideas. . .once my goblin is right side up i can explore more in depth. it wont be quite as simple as a flat plate but gimmie a bit- i'll be back with something.

As a side thought to most of these suspension issues have any of you played with johnny joints before? very much like Heims but when i was doing more offroad things more personally preferred.

 

[LaunchPad]

or say something like this. . . .

UNI-BALL WELD CUP, 1" ROD END INSERT - C73-441 at The Chassis Shop

 

[Sebnuts]

I used a purchased bearing cup and welded it to a laser cut mount plate

Eventually I would like to machine the whole part out of aluminum billet.

 

[Sebnuts]

As a side thought to most of these suspension issues have any of you played with johnny joints before?

I had Johnny joints on my Jeep. They are way too big for this application.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

I have a set as well. This guys made something work, but details are a little hard to follow.

RIP Brad! Miss you on the forum!

 

[Ross]

I used a purchased bearing cup and welded it to a laser cut mount plate
...

Another nice part! Do you happen to have the part number for that bearing cup, so I can get one?

 

[LaunchPad]

I used a purchased bearing cup and welded it to a laser cut mount plate
View attachment 43445
Eventually I would like to machine the whole part out of aluminum billet.

wow all I did was drive from my shop to wife's house and what a turn out. look like we were talking about the same thing.

yes aluminum would probably be 1/2 the weight. those are substantial pieces of plate!

Well man- I know you have the skills to CAD those bad boys up. if we wait on me to do the drawing it I will have to get my goblin further along. is it possible to have them as identical parts vs mirror image parts? I am willing to give a go or three on the MR-1 once I finish assembly. maybe aim for a Christmas present? now realize i will have a learning curve of sorts for this mill once it is up but i love a good project!

it looks like Ross is the guy to be our stress testor on a version. lol.

as to making more of the parts- provided the learning curve and all works out. . .well i do NOT want to be on anyone's toes around here so be cool to have Goblin HQ of Lonnie and Adam at least bless a small batch if they don't want to produce a few.

 

[LaunchPad]

Another nice part! Do you happen to have the part number for that bearing cup, so I can get one?

Ross,

I dont know exactly what part Sebnuts used but bearing cups can be found here if you know your strut diam. buy two! lol

UNI-BALL WELD CUP, 1" ROD END INSERT - C73-441 at The Chassis Shop

 

[Ross]

wow all I did was drive from my shop to wife's house and what a turn out. look like we were talking about the same thing.
...
i do NOT want to be on anyone's toes around here so be cool to have Goblin HQ of Lonnie and Adam at least bless a small batch if they don't want to produce a few.

You will probably have to call Lonny or Adam, as they can't follow all the messages in this forum, and run the company at the same time.
What I have seen before is that some of us do some research and development, design something, then test it. If it passes testing, then DF often will come up with a manufacturing solution. For example, the parking brake, the cable connector to the F35 transmission, the billet shifter, etc. So far we have a plan, but it hasn't been tested. My guess, DF will say go... and then will stay tuned to see if it works. But it doesn't hurt to ask, as Lonny was the one who told me about this issue, after my shock failed, so he has seen it before.

The Goblin All Terrain has re-enforced shock towers, because the DF frame 1/4" plate with 3 bolts that are at the top of the shock tower, is soft and can flex. Maybe by design, since there is no spherical joint there? Maybe because the Goblin AT has to take bigger suspension bumps?
If we redesign it with spherical joints, we might want to add re-inforcement between the shock towers, or at least on that 1/4" plate.

 

[Sebnuts]

Another nice part! Do you happen to have the part number for that bearing cup, so I can get one?

FK CP10 is the cup I used for the bearing I linked previously.